The fault line concerning abortion

[Captdon]

I still consider myself Catholic even though yu will bind me at more independent christian churches on any given Sunday.

Dogma has become whatever will keeps us in the money. Gays, abortion, divorce (fake annulment)... and some really disgusting crimes have become at minimum ignored.

Now they have a Socialist Pope promoting stealing from others instead of charity.

Lapsed Catholics are to be pitied. They forget what they were taught and make up whatever keeps them away.

[Captdon]

But what would you say of individuals who are entirely irreligious, but who believe that Judeo-Christian ethics should undergird our society?

That would be morality. Religion and non-religion aren't mutually exclusive.

[carolina73]

Not human-like? Really?

The thread is what should be used to determine the morality of abortion.

Because if you are talking about religion, moral or legal opinion then it is all affected by when life begins.
Murder is of a life by the law. It is a sin by religion. Morally it is wrong.
So you have to decide when it is a life, because then it is murder if it is. Self defense is the only current legal acceptable reason
Catholics are voting in the majority for the Democrats who as a party approves of killing babies 2 minutes before birth. Catholics also vary on what point that it is not acceptable. People that are atheists still believe in a moral code to different degrees.

Your question as you want it answered is not answerable.

[DGUtley]

I seriously doubt that we will come to any consensus as concerning the ethical (or non-ethical) nature of abortion-on-demand--at least, anytime within this generation. So I will not approach the matter directly.

But I will ask this:

Do others agree that one's stance on the matter is really determined by whether one believes that our country should be entirely (and unapologetically) secular, or should be underpinned by Judeo-Christian thought?

To reiterate, I am not asking for a re-litigation of the matter. I am merely asking if others would agree that this is the fault line.

Not in my mind.

[pjohns]

If I was taught by my faith that it was wrong it is no different than being taught by PP.

What is a "PP," anyway? (Is that, perhaps, a parish priest? I am just guessing.)

In any case, I do not acquiesce thoughtlessly to the teachings (moral or otherwise) of any pastor--regardless of the number of theological seminaries he may have attended (and for how many years). (My own pastor and I have had many theological discussions--about a wide variety of subjects--and I have certainly learned several things from him. I would like to think that he has learned some things from me, also.)

I don't know how much secular values are based on religious values. How do you separate them?

Many people, over the past 50 or 60 years, would define secular values as those originating entirely from modern thought--and free of any religious influence.

I am not saying that this is my own view. But it is the view of an increasing number of people.

[pjohns]

It's like a Baptist telling me what my church believes. It's sort of funny in a sad way.

Oftentimes, a Baptist (or a member of any other Protestant denomination) has only a caricatured view of what the Catholic Church teaches.

But sometimes that view--on the other hand--is correct.

You are quite right in being offended by having others explain to you just what your church teaches.

But what my own church typically teaches (as regarding anything) and my own view may be two entirely different matters.

Whenever that is the case, I am not at all bashful about letting it be known.

[Cotton1]

Abortion, per se, affects no one but the woman, right? It is no one else's problem, and that's the way she has wanted it for decades. As it doesn't, per se, harm society, why should anyone care what she does. The father, of course, has little or no impact on such a decision. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to care, one way or another. It's between the woman and God. Politicians use it for -- ta-da! -- politics.

I am very opposed to body parts factories.

Abortion also tends to be noticed by the baby during the being ground into sausage phase. Personally, Ive never understood the fascination of a crowd of people circled around a little person going "aww" when its drool begins pouring from the little hole in its face. But the entree'?..hell yea when it starts making stupid looking faces and the adults try to determine exactly when the excrement is occuring, or not..you see. Then they grow up as the same pretty butterfly. A while back mommie dearest was saying "
You was the sweetest little blue eyed boy". What are you saying, I'm not now? Fuk u

[Cotton1]

Bottom line? I think life begins after the 3rd drink

[Captdon]

Because if you are talking about religion, moral or legal opinion then it is all affected by when life begins.
Murder is of a life by the law. It is a sin by religion. Morally it is wrong.
So you have to decide when it is a life, because then it is murder if it is. Self defense is the only current legal acceptable reason
Catholics are voting in the majority for the Democrats who as a party approves of killing babies 2 minutes before birth. Catholics also vary on what point that it is not acceptable. People that are atheists still believe in a moral code to different degrees.

Your question as you want it answered is not answerable.

The answer isn't possible period. I know of no actual practicing Catholic who favors abortion. I never have.

[Captdon]

What is a "PP," anyway? (Is that, perhaps, a parish priest? I am just guessing.)

In any case, I do not acquiesce thoughtlessly to the teachings (moral or otherwise) of any pastor--regardless of the number of theological seminaries he may have attended (and for how many years). (My own pastor and I have had many theological discussions--about a wide variety of subjects--and I have certainly learned several things from him. I would like to think that he has learned some things from me, also.)


Many people, over the past 50 or 60 years, would define secular values as those originating entirely from modern thought--and free of any religious influence.

I am not saying that this is my own view. But it is the view of an increasing number of people.

All secular thought is derived from religion- either in acceptance or rejection.