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Thread: Kent State - Video I hadn't seen

  1. #11
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    Lummy's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Dumb protest. Bad music.

    Yeah? Well, maybe some of it was bad music, but it was our music, and it was a lot better than most stuff today.
    http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/120290-Vodafone-denies-5G-coronavirus-connection

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lummy View Post
    Yeah? Well, maybe some of it was bad music, but it was our music, and it was a lot better than most stuff today.
    Groovy.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    On Saturday.

    One of the problems was the national guardsmen had just come from a teamsters strike. Some of them were from my hometown. They were worn out, tired and hot. You don’t shoot students for protesting.
    Apparently you do.

    :-)

    You also don't commit arson if it is a protest.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Apparently you do. :-) You also don't commit arson if it is a protest.
    This is on Governor Rhodes. Kent State was not a radical campus. Fairly tame from what I've read. He exploded it. It's sad.

    Well, if you commit arson, you get arrested, not shot militaristically. If I remember correctly, Jeff Miller was a ROTC student. All those shot were students in good standing at the university. It's the students' right (and I would submit duty) to protest. The Guard never should've been on campus.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    This is on Governor Rhodes. Kent State was not a radical campus. Fairly tame from what I've read. He exploded it. It's sad.

    Well, if you commit arson, you get arrested, not shot militaristically. If I remember correctly, Jeff Miller was a ROTC student. All those shot were students in good standing at the university. It's the students' right (and I would submit duty) to protest. The Guard never should've been on campus.
    You omitted the context. That is not right.

    Violent protesters burned down the ROTC building. The national guard came in to maintain order. The protesters rushed or charged the national guard. Oopsy-daisy. Four dead in Ohio. Regrets for the innocent dead. This lies at the feet of he protesters who burned a building and rushed the national guardsmen.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You omitted the context. That is not right.
    I did not. The ROTC building was already burned. By Sunday, campus was calm. By Monday, the issue was the troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Violent protesters burned down the ROTC building. The national guard came in to maintain order. The protesters rushed or charged the national guard. Oopsy-daisy. Four dead in Ohio. Regrets for the innocent dead. This lies at the feet of he protesters who burned a building and rushed the national guardsmen.
    Order didn't need maintained - calm had returned. Rhodes wanted to "show" those students. Protestors did not rush nor charge the National Guard. I've read the trial transcripts from the wrongful death trials in Ravenna. I've had lunch several times with the Guard's attorney. That's just not true. It's fake news. This is on the Governor and the National Guard. Not the Guardsmen, but the Guard and the Governor.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    I did not. The ROTC building was already burned. By Sunday, campus was calm. By Monday, the issue was the troops.
    After the fact one can make the claim. Violence had already happened. Burning down a building with a one day lapse does not mean anything. It would have been extraordinarily irresponsible for the governor not to call for more help.
    Order didn't need maintained - calm had returned. Rhodes wanted to "show" those students. Protestors did not rush nor charge the National Guard. I've read the trial transcripts from the wrongful death trials in Ravenna. I've had lunch several times with the Guard's attorney. That's just not true. It's fake news. This is on the Governor and the National Guard. Not the Guardsmen, but the Guard and the Governor.
    Your statement is nonsensical. The same people who burned down the building were still present. Why would they leave? Things were going their way.


    I defer to your greater understanding of the situation prior to the beginning of shooting. I suppose it is entirely natural for the National
    Guard to simply open fire on a crowd for no reason at all. No one felt threatened. Everything was calm, then BLAM! Blam, blam, blam blam! the Guardsmen, for no reason whatsoever just opened fire, randomly killing people.

    You remain unconvincing.

    I still love you like a brother.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    After the fact one can make the claim. Violence had already happened. Burning down a building with a one day lapse does not mean anything. It would have been extraordinarily irresponsible for the governor not to call for more help.
    More help was not needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Your statement is nonsensical. The same people who burned down the building were still present. Why would they leave? Things were going their way. I defer to your greater understanding of the situation prior to the beginning of shooting. I suppose it is entirely natural for the National Guard to simply open fire on a crowd for no reason at all. No one felt threatened. Everything was calm, then BLAM! Blam, blam, blam blam! the Guardsmen, for no reason whatsoever just opened fire, randomly killing people. You remain unconvincing. I still love you like a brother.
    Ditto. Yet, that is one of the great mysteries of Kent State.

    https://www.beaconjournal.com/news/2...-may-4-mystery

    https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2010...ar-old_re.html
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    I did not. The ROTC building was already burned. By Sunday, campus was calm. By Monday, the issue was the troops.


    Order didn't need maintained - calm had returned. Rhodes wanted to "show" those students. Protestors did not rush nor charge the National Guard. I've read the trial transcripts from the wrongful death trials in Ravenna. I've had lunch several times with the Guard's attorney. That's just not true. It's fake news. This is on the Governor and the National Guard. Not the Guardsmen, but the Guard and the Governor.
    I have to disagree with you on one major point. It is on the Guardsmen. It is ALWAYS on the guy(s) who pull the trigger. Whether it was done in panic or on command, the ultimate responsibility lies with the guys who fired the shots. It always does. It has to. If it doesn't, we end up with the Nuremberg Trial defense of "I was just following orders".
    "All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury Vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803). "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them." Miranda Vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491.

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  11. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I have to disagree with you on one major point. It is on the Guardsmen. It is ALWAYS on the guy(s) who pull the trigger. Whether it was done in panic or on command, the ultimate responsibility lies with the guys who fired the shots. It always does. It has to. If it doesn't, we end up with the Nuremberg Trial defense of "I was just following orders".
    Valid point. My point was that they shouldn't have been there.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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