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Thread: Don't try to stand your ground if you're a woman...

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Since the rape kit exists, along with the deceased's massive criminal record for violent offenses, many against women and the exclusion of potentially exculpatory evidence during the trial, I would think that significant grounds for an appeal exist. There must be an Alabama firm or even a national firm that could take the appeal on a pro bono basis.
    Someone will probably pick it up but the problem is not this case alone; it's most cases that share characteristics. How can you fight a murder charge if you cannot present damning evidence of constant abuse? On the flip side, that could be a slippery slope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    Someone will probably pick it up but the problem is not this case alone; it's most cases that share characteristics. How can you fight a murder charge if you cannot present damning evidence of constant abuse? On the flip side, that could be a slippery slope.
    I can't comment on all other cases, but this one appears to be purely self-defense. There is evidence of a rape and the deceased was trying to kill the woman's brother. I mean what about the guy who was about to lose his life to this homicidal maniac who was high as a kite on who knows what? Skip the constant abuse and go for the obvious low-hanging fruit. She had incompetent counsel.
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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  4. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    I can't comment on all other cases, but this one appears to be purely self-defense. There is evidence of a rape and the deceased was trying to kill the woman's brother. I mean what about the guy who was about to lose his life to this homicidal maniac who was high as a kite on who knows what? Skip the constant abuse and go for the obvious low-hanging fruit. She had incompetent counsel.
    She didn't do much to get help, she did not tell her brother. The article ties it in with other cases, but essentially, the argument is being made that is was not rape, that she could have screamed for help instead of writing a note, and so on. She is going to lose the hearing to establish this as a "Stand your ground" case and it will go to trial with murder charges (the victim is refusing to plead down).

    Stand your ground, according to the article, doesn't do much for women or minorities. Specifically, victims of DV and SV, in this case, and a couple of other similar cases showcased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    She didn't do much to get help, she did not tell her brother. The article ties it in with other cases, but essentially, the argument is being made that is was not rape, that she could have screamed for help instead of writing a note, and so on. She is going to lose the hearing to establish this as a "Stand your ground" case and it will go to trial with murder charges (the victim is refusing to plead down).

    Stand your ground, according to the article, doesn't do much for women or minorities. Specifically, victims of DV and SV, in this case, and a couple of other similar cases showcased.
    "Chris said that he found Todd in the kitchen. “You need to get your $#@! and leave,” Chris told him, and accidentally fired a shot into a cabinet. When Todd refused to go, Chris set the gun down on the kitchen island and tried to wrestle him out of the house. Chris was large but soft; Todd was barrel-chested, and he had taken a combination of Xanax, amphetamines, alcohol, and meth. According to Chris, Todd easily got him in a headlock and began choking him.

    Brittany, who had been in the living room until hearing the shot, said she picked up the gun from the counter. Sobbing and screaming, she told Todd to let her brother go. When he kept choking Chris, saying that he’d kill them both, Brittany fired a shot. When Todd still didn’t let go, she fired two more rounds. After he fell, she called 911."

    This sounds like self-defense. What about the brother's testimony. Also, didn't he have bruises on his neck?
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    The last stat that I read was 40% of spousal homicides are woman killing their husbands.

    I always said that if they outlawed guns then I am not turning mine in. Better to go to jail than to have a dead wife at the hands of some crack head who thought I had turned in my guns.

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    Justice system is $#@!ed whether it's the Feds or the states

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Xl View Post
    Justice system is $#@!ed whether it's the Feds or the states
    There are actually some really awesome things happening that are not covered by the media, which are being driven by victim advocates, forensic nurses and law enforcement.

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of issues not being addressed, I think because it would require such significant changes at a much higher level. Abusers with convictions have custody rights to shared children, for example. A woman can be arrested for hitting back to try and get away (LEOs I deal with tend to use judgment calls...). Shelter funding often does not cover those escaping emotional abuse (because they do not face imminent danger and potential death). Funding, in general, is a royal pain in the ass with the government coming up with stupid rules at every turn.

    The issue of Stand Your Ground is just one more thing, and another barrier for women just trying to survive. How is the most basic need in life, survival, something we are punishing?

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    Stand your ground laws are only intended to provide a legal basis for not retreating in the face of an imminent threat. They are not intended to deal with issues like serial, long term abuse that may have such a cumulative effect that the victim feels a need to take action in order to avoid continued abuse.

    It has to be happening NOW to be covered by "Stand your ground".
    "All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury Vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803). "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them." Miranda Vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    How far can abused women go to protect themselves?

    This is an interesting article.

    The "battered woman syndrome" defense is actually mocked and scoffed at, but is basically predicated on an argument that a woman is too $#@!ing crazy to know better. Somehow, this is one of the best defense strategies available when a woman kills her abuser/rapist (which says a lot).
    The problem, IMO, is that some women do use the battered women syndrome as a defense when they weren't battered. For me to buy it there has to be evidence a history. in this case it sounds like there was and it was not allowed into court, which I disagree with. The other problem with the battered woman ( although it could be a battered man) defense is that the killing is sometimes not during an attack and our society interprets the self defense rule very strictly ( IMO too strictly) to mean a current immediate threat. For example if a woman is battered and has exhausted all her avenues I think we give her a little leeway on the timing. Likewise if a gang member believably threatened to kill me and I can prove it I think hunting him down before he gets me is valid self defense if the authorities cannot protect me. Few agree.

    However, in general the courts are pro woman and women get much lighter sentences in general.

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    I can't believe anyone would whine that women don't usually get a pass when murdering their husband/boyfriend/significant other. Well, I suppose 95% getting a pass doesn't prohibit whining about the other 5%.

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