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Thread: Don't try to stand your ground if you're a woman...

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    Don't try to stand your ground if you're a woman...

    Courts frequently do not take evidence of abuse into account. Sometimes this is because a woman’s lawyer fails to hire an expert witness to testify about the effects of sexual or domestic violence. A prosecutor may successfully argue that a woman’s self-defense claim is invalid because she didn’t end a relationship with an abuser, didn’t call the police about the violence (as Brittany didn’t), or allowed the abuser into her home (as Brittany did). Or a judge may not permit the evidence of abuse to be presented...

    In 2014, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Tracey Grissom was sentenced to twenty-five years in prison for murder, for shooting her ex-husband, Hunter. The judge did not allow jurors to hear that, in 2010, Hunter had been charged with rape and sodomy after allegedly assaulting Grissom. Grissom said that he had knocked her to the ground, choked her with a drumstick, and sexually abused her until she lost consciousness. She said the attack caused rectal-nerve damage and required surgery, and that she now used a colostomy bag. The day of the shooting, she said, she’d feared for her life, but eyewitnesses said that she had begun shooting without provocation. “I didn’t do anything wrong,” Grissom said, sobbing, after her conviction. “All I did was protect myself.” One of the jurors later said that, if she’d been able to hear the details of the abuse, she would have voted to acquit...

    In his analysis for The New Yorker, John Roman, the researcher from the University of Chicago, found that, over all, according to F.B.I. data, Stand Your Ground laws have actually helped both women and men win justifiable-homicide defenses. But in some states the laws have done little or nothing for women. A statistical analysis of Stand Your Ground cases in Florida, conducted by the political scientist Justin Murphy, looked at two hundred and thirty-seven incidents between 2005 and 2013. The study, which was published in Social Science Quarterly, in 2017, found evidence of both racial and gender bias. The gender bias applied to “domestic” cases—those which occurred on a defendant’s property. The probability of conviction for a male defendant in such a case was about forty per cent; for a woman, it was about eighty per cent. The analysis suggests that, in domestic cases, Stand Your Ground works better for men than for women.

    In Alabama, Roman found, no women received justifiable-homicide rulings between 2006, when the state’s Stand Your Ground law was implemented, and 2010, after which the state stopped reporting its data.
    How far can abused women go to protect themselves?

    This is an interesting article.

    The "battered woman syndrome" defense is actually mocked and scoffed at, but is basically predicated on an argument that a woman is too $#@!ing crazy to know better. Somehow, this is one of the best defense strategies available when a woman kills her abuser/rapist (which says a lot).

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    Common's Avatar Senior Member
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    This comes from first hand experience, domestic abuse is many times a tough call but most of the time women are the abused. The most frequent response you get from men, is she attacked me and he shows us scratchs bruises and redmarks, whereas the woman has more serious injuries.

    Theres always two sides of any incident and domestic is one of the hardest to determine IMHO, especially if there are no outward signs
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    Alabama.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Documentation, documentation, documentation.

    That said, many women are hesitant to go to the police or file a formal complaint, usually because the abuse will escalate for 'tattling'.

    Get girlfriends to take pictures if the woman can't. Write down dates, time and places, and what occurred. Call help lines that may be able to send you in the right direction to get out.

    When all else fails, and for your own reasons and you can't leave, do not pull a 'burning bed' move. Make sure you make as much noise as possible if the situation escalates, yelling screaming, bang on walls.

    And go for body mass if it comes to it.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

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    He's dead and she's alive. If I had to pick a winner....
    "An army, great in space, may offer opposition in a brief span of time.
    One man, brief in space, must spread his opposition
    across a period of many years if he is
    to have a chance of succeeding"

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    Women are routinely blamed for "not leaving" an abusive situation - but in many instances they literally have no place to go. There may be no resources, either private or public, to turn to, and they may have children whose lives they are loathe to disrupt, even at the cost of their own pain. And of course all pain isn't physical. A person can be living in Hell and have no scars to prove it.

    In some places, local animal shelters have partnered with battered women's shelters to provide temporary housing for pets, when the women fear for those pets' lives and safety if they were to have to leave them behind. Many years ago, my sister finally got up the courage to get the hell away from her psycho spouse. At one point he called and said that he'd "allow" her to come back if she'd let him kill one of her three cats. (Gives you some small clue to his personality.) Fortunately, she'd taken them all with her when she left. She's now a successful legal secretary and happily single, and he was found decomposing in his house several years ago.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    How far can abused women go to protect themselves?

    This is an interesting article.

    The "battered woman syndrome" defense is actually mocked and scoffed at, but is basically predicated on an argument that a woman is too $#@!ing crazy to know better. Somehow, this is one of the best defense strategies available when a woman kills her abuser/rapist (which says a lot).
    "Police officers showed up nearly half an hour later, around the time that Todd died. Brittany detailed how he had beaten and raped her and attacked Chris. A rape kit showed bruises on her neck, breasts, arms, legs, and pelvis, evidence of strangulation, bite marks on her neck and chin, and secretions on her neck and in her vagina. Yet within forty-eight hours she had been charged with murder."

    She should appeal.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Women are routinely blamed for "not leaving" an abusive situation - but in many instances they literally have no place to go. There may be no resources, either private or public, to turn to, and they may have children whose lives they are loathe to disrupt, even at the cost of their own pain. And of course all pain isn't physical. A person can be living in Hell and have no scars to prove it.

    In some places, local animal shelters have partnered with battered women's shelters to provide temporary housing for pets, when the women fear for those pets' lives and safety if they were to have to leave them behind. Many years ago, my sister finally got up the courage to get the hell away from her psycho spouse. At one point he called and said that he'd "allow" her to come back if she'd let him kill one of her three cats. (Gives you some small clue to his personality.) Fortunately, she'd taken them all with her when she left. She's now a successful legal secretary and happily single, and he was found decomposing in his house several years ago.
    EPOs and POs also protect pets now, at least in Virginia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    "Police officers showed up nearly half an hour later, around the time that Todd died. Brittany detailed how he had beaten and raped her and attacked Chris. A rape kit showed bruises on her neck, breasts, arms, legs, and pelvis, evidence of strangulation, bite marks on her neck and chin, and secretions on her neck and in her vagina. Yet within forty-eight hours she had been charged with murder."

    She should appeal.
    I am not sure how accurate the story is because I have never dealt with a scenario with murder, but it sounds like she would have been denied a rape kit if her brother had not initially taken the fall for the shooting. I have never experienced it where the sheriff's office has failed to bring in a criminal prior to the cut off for evidence collection (because that's what SANEs/FNEs are, on top of providing specific medical care).

    But, I can honestly totally believe that between processing and simply not giving a $#@!, that a woman being charged with murder would not make it to a SANE/FNE in time to collect meaningful evidence. And it would be so incredibly easy to say that it was a scheduling issue (you tend to schedule them rather than just showing up and getting one since forensic nurses do not work in many hospitals and not every hospital has a forensic department).

    The issue seems to be that her local police and prosecutor are saying it was consensual "rough sex"... Idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    I am not sure how accurate the story is because I have never dealt with a scenario with murder, but it sounds like she would have been denied a rape kit if her brother had not initially taken the fall for the shooting. I have never experienced it where the sheriff's office has failed to bring in a criminal prior to the cut off for evidence collection (because that's what SANEs/FNEs are, on top of providing specific medical care).

    But, I can honestly totally believe that between processing and simply not giving a $#@!, that a woman being charged with murder would not make it to a SANE/FNE in time to collect meaningful evidence. And it would be so incredibly easy to say that it was a scheduling issue (you tend to schedule them rather than just showing up and getting one since forensic nurses do not work in many hospitals and not every hospital has a forensic department).

    The issue seems to be that her local police and prosecutor are saying it was consensual "rough sex"... Idiots.
    Since the rape kit exists, along with the deceased's massive criminal record for violent offenses, many against women and the exclusion of potentially exculpatory evidence during the trial, I would think that significant grounds for an appeal exist. There must be an Alabama firm or even a national firm that could take the appeal on a pro bono basis.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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