User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 53

Thread: A New Conservative Theory of Why America Is So Polarized

  1. #1
    Points: 668,272, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433960
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,209
    Points
    668,272
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,238
    Thanked 81,549x in 55,058 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    A New Conservative Theory of Why America Is So Polarized

    A New Conservative Theory of Why America Is So Polarized is a review of Christopher Caldwell's The Age of Entitlement: America Since the Sixties. Caldwell, it explains, is an old-school, even Old World type of conservative. He's a defender of transatlantic populism against the “globalist” consensus around free trade and immigration.

    The review:

    Caldwell’s basic thesis is that the country’s current divisions are the product of a longstanding and as-yet-unresolved conflict over the legacy of the ‘60s, and over race and civil rights in particular. His radical innovation is to argue that the legal regime that emerged out of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and its subsequent expansions was, in his words, “not just a major new element in the Constitution,” but “a rival constitution, with which the original one was frequently incompatible.”

    But how is the Civil Rights Act of 1964 a “de facto constitution” incompatible with the original one? In a strict legal sense, Caldwell argues, it is that the Civil Rights Act and associated Supreme Court decisions, such as Brown v. Board of Education, conflicted with or modified what had traditionally been understood as Americans’ constitutionally guaranteed rights. Court- or legislatively-mandated integration, for instance, curtailed freedom of association, in the same way that legal prohibitions on discrimination in hiring or renting out a room curtailed the property rights of a business or hotel owner.

    ...Caldwell’s concern is less legalistic and has more to do with how “civil rights ideology… became, most unexpectedly, the model for an entire new system of constantly churning political reform.” He argues that the act and its subsequent expansions provided a blueprint, a moral rationale, and a legal toolkit for ambitious and frequently unpopular social engineering projects, justified in the name of an ever-proliferating suite of rights and operating outside the bounds of traditional democratic and constitutional legitimacy.... When the Supreme Court, in Roe v. Wade, legalized abortion based on a hitherto unheard-of construal of the 14th Amendment’s due process clause (“nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”), or when, in Obergefell v. Hodges, it did the same for gay marriage, it was acting according to the spirit of this de facto constitution rather than the letter of the actual one.

    ...Near the end of the book, he mentions in passing that Republicans have failed to see that “the only way back to the free country of their ideals [is] through the repeal of the civil rights laws.” It’s a shocking notion, and it is hard to believe that even Caldwell believes it is a viable way to proceed. In another late passage, he writes:
    As they moved inland in the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries, Americans had obliterated whole cultures with a clean conscience, as if the continent were unpeopled. In the half-century after the mid-1960s, America’s leaders, still dreaming their big dreams, obliterated their own cultural institutions in a similar spirit.
    One gets the sense that these lines are closer to his heart. The story his book tells is a kind of reactionary American tragedy — a lament for a version of the country that is now gone, dispatched by the same hubris and ambition that powered its ascent. As in a tragedy, events seem decreed by fate. There is little sense they could have turned out otherwise.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Mister D (02-24-2020)

  3. #2
    Original Ranter
    Points: 298,366, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 18.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    416642
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    118,072
    Points
    298,366
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    25,346
    Thanked 53,587x in 36,518 Posts
    Mentioned
    1102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Very interesting. Thanks. I'm a little surprised he worked for the the Weekly Standard.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  4. #3
    Points: 668,272, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433960
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,209
    Points
    668,272
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,238
    Thanked 81,549x in 55,058 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Very interesting. Thanks. I'm a little surprised he worked for the the Weekly Standard.
    Right, two different kinds of conservatism.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  5. #4
    Points: 52,081, Level: 55
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 469
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    2378
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    19,121
    Points
    52,081
    Level
    55
    Thanks Given
    1,698
    Thanked 2,368x in 2,004 Posts
    Mentioned
    284 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    A New Conservative Theory of Why America Is So Polarized is a review of Christopher Caldwell's The Age of Entitlement: America Since the Sixties. Caldwell, it explains, is an old-school, even Old World type of conservative. He's a defender of transatlantic populism against the “globalist” consensus around free trade and immigration.

    The review:
    The only part of this work that I disagree with is this thing about "new interpretations" of the constitution leading to the Civil Rights Act. The whole idea behind civil rights is to put the constitution to test as written verbatim, much the same way the right-wing crowd observes the 2nd amendment. Republicans by and large however have failed the party and the message.

  6. #5
    Points: 668,272, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433960
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,209
    Points
    668,272
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,238
    Thanked 81,549x in 55,058 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The only part of this work that I disagree with is this thing about "new interpretations" of the constitution leading to the Civil Rights Act. The whole idea behind civil rights is to put the constitution to test as written verbatim, much the same way the right-wing crowd observes the 2nd amendment. Republicans by and large however have failed the party and the message.
    And yet in order to protect those civil rights, natural rights must be violated. That's not very constitutional.

    Trolling ignored.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  7. #6
    Points: 52,081, Level: 55
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 469
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jet57's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    2378
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    19,121
    Points
    52,081
    Level
    55
    Thanks Given
    1,698
    Thanked 2,368x in 2,004 Posts
    Mentioned
    284 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    And yet in order to protect those civil rights, natural rights must be violated. That's not very constitutional.

    Trolling ignored.
    Well; you don't know what you're talking about, and editing a post doesn't make you anywhere near right either. Go back and read the material.

  8. #7
    Points: 668,272, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433960
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,209
    Points
    668,272
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,238
    Thanked 81,549x in 55,058 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Well; you don't know what you're talking about, and editing a post doesn't make you anywhere near right either. Go back and read the material.
    Irrelevant nonsense can never stand as an argument.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    Kalkin (02-24-2020)

  10. #8
    Points: 668,272, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433960
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    198,209
    Points
    668,272
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    32,238
    Thanked 81,549x in 55,058 Posts
    Mentioned
    2014 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Against the New Nationalism is a libertarian argument against the American conservatism, under the auspices of Rich Lowry at the National Review and author of The Case for Nationalism. What Lowry, and I think many American conservatives, establishment one, in the face of Trump, are doing is trying to reconcile nationism with patriotism. "To be a nationalist, he says, is merely to feel a glow of pride in one's country, to recognize it as possessing a particular cultural character that differentiates its citizens from all others, and to insist on its sovereignty in the face of crusading outside forces. Nationalism and patriotism, in other words, are essentially interchangeable."

    That's American conservatism. It tries to preserve democracy and capitalism as good and part of being patriotic.

    European conservatism, that of Christopher Caldwell, is different in that they tend to view democracy and capitalism as promoting globalism. They don't really distinguish American liberals and conservatives because to them American is all about democracy and capitalism that leads to globalism.

    Now in the OP I focused on rights but here is more from the OP article:

    In his [Christopher Caldwell's] recent essays for the Claremont Review of Books, City Journal, and even the New Republic, he has relentlessly attacked the “globalist” consensus around free trade and immigration while writing sympathetically — some would say too sympathetically — about some of globalism’s most disreputable opponents: Viktor Orbán, Eric Zemmour, Rodrigo Duterte, et al. In Caldwell’s writing, the conflict between globalism and populism is staged as a clash of civilizations: on one side is a high-handed elite, set on transforming the West into a sort of multicultural shopping mall; on the other is a loose band of dissidents, patriots, cranks, and gadflys who want their cultures, as they know them, to survive.
    To tie this into the thread on "Why the West Won," I will say that the very institutions, political and economic, that made the West great is also what will eventually bring it down. Few American conservatives can see that.

    Nor do you, locked in as you are to an insular American view of the world.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  11. #9
    Points: 145,114, Level: 91
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 1,536
    Overall activity: 66.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    carolina73's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    44153
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    58,055
    Points
    145,114
    Level
    91
    Thanks Given
    56,527
    Thanked 44,158x in 28,539 Posts
    Mentioned
    155 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We did have a split when the neoconservatives (religious Democrats) were driven to the Republican Party by the leftists.

    The Democrats have split and certainly evolved just as the GOP has evolved and the neoconservatives have been given the back seat. We are not the party of Teddy Roosevelt or Ike.
    2024 is the big question now. Mike Pence is a neocon. He will not lead the party.


    I also have a problem with the use of the word populism. The populists that I first learned about were; example - the farmers during the depression that demanded subsidies from the US Government and the politicians that pacified them. They were the Chicken in every pot politicians.
    Trump is not giving anyone anything but results. He is removing the special deals for votes.
    Last edited by carolina73; 02-24-2020 at 10:31 PM.

  12. #10
    Original Ranter
    Points: 863,827, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    497547
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    242,878
    Points
    863,827
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,702
    Thanked 148,557x in 94,977 Posts
    Mentioned
    2554 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    The only part of this work that I disagree with is this thing about "new interpretations" of the constitution leading to the Civil Rights Act. The whole idea behind civil rights is to put the constitution to test as written verbatim, much the same way the right-wing crowd observes the 2nd amendment. Republicans by and large however have failed the party and the message.
    The civil rights act is an affront to the natural rights the constitution protect. It is using the constitution as a sword and not a shield.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    carolina73 (02-24-2020)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts