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Thread: Economic Decline or War

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamewell45 View Post
    War between the major powers has become obsolete, as we would be in danger of becoming should we ever engage in another major war.
    I wouldn't be too sure of that. Rambo is still very much alive and kicking.








  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    It wasn’t a direct challenge, it was other countries trying to expand their colonial ambitions which were seen as a threat.
    Nationalism as opposed to patriotism is very easy to understand. Patriotism is a love of one’s own country and nationalism sees itself as better than, not different from, others. Sovereignty would be patriotic, invading others would be nationalistic.
    Britain's chief colonial rival was the French Empire. Britain went to war allied with France. Germany was seeking a dominant position on the continent. The colonies were peripheral and when war came they were left largely to their own devices.
    Patriotism is a sentiment. Nationalism is an ideology predicated on the political sovereignty of a people. There is no getting around that. I do think I understand why the English, for example, favor this ahistorical conception of nationalism and that's because the national aspirations of the English were never frustrated or at least not for a very long time.
    Last edited by Mister D; 03-30-2020 at 09:23 AM.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    I wouldn't be too sure of that. Rambo is still very much alive and kicking.
    True, although I think we'd end up having to check the heart-lung monitor just to make sure.
    Currently plotting the overthrow of the world; unfortunately I have no idea how to do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Britain's chief colonial rival was the French Empire. Britain went to war allied with France. Germany was seeking a dominant position on the continent. The colonies were peripheral and when war came they were left largely to their own devices.
    Patriotism is a sentiment. Nationalism is an ideology predicated on the political sovereignty of a people. There is no getting around that. I do think I understand why the English, for example, favor this ahistorical conception of nationalism and that's because the national aspirations of the English were never frustrated or at least not for a very long time.
    It destroyed both the Turkish Ottoman Empire and the Austrian Hapsburg Empire, plus Russia’s defeat removed the Russians from the world economic stage and Germany.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    It destroyed both the Turkish Ottoman Empire and the Austrian Hapsburg Empire, plus Russia’s defeat removed the Russians from the world economic stage and Germany.
    All true.

    Imperial Russia and Japan were the two most rapidly growing economies in 1914.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    All true.

    Imperial Russia and Japan were the two most rapidly growing economies in 1914.
    So it wasn’t just about France and Germany, it brought down empires and reshaped the world order, as did WW2 as did the previous Napoleonic wars and all the others before it, because the winners of large conflicts reshape geography and economics.

    ‘Patriotism is a sentiment. Nationalism is an ideology predicated on the political sovereignty of a people.’ Trying to get my head around that. The differences between patriotism and nationalism are not an English invention, they’re part of political definitions. For instance, it helps us understand why Nuremberg happened and it wasn’t because the Germans were patriots.








  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    So it wasn’t just about France and Germany, it brought down empires and reshaped the world order, as did WW2 as did the previous Napoleonic wars and all the others before it, because the winners of large conflicts reshape geography and economics.

    ‘Patriotism is a sentiment. Nationalism is an ideology predicated on the political sovereignty of a people.’ Trying to get my head around that. The differences between patriotism and nationalism are not an English invention, they’re part of political definitions. For instance, it helps us understand why Nuremberg happened and it wasn’t because the Germans were patriots.
    No one said it was just about France and Germany. No one said it was just about anything. I'm not sure what your point is here or at least how it relates to anything I've said.

    No one said either were English inventions but that nationalism is predicated on the political sovereignty of a people isn't controversial. You mentioned Austria-Hungary. That's one of the more patently obvious illustrations of 1) the desire for political sovereignty at the heart of nationalism and 2) the internal (not external) thrust of nationalism.
    Last edited by Mister D; 03-31-2020 at 06:07 PM.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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