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Thread: Can there be Heaven and Hell without free choice.

  1. #11
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    Lummy's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    None. A dog is incapable of moral reasoning or moral agency (the ability to decide and be held accountable). They're primarily instinctual.
    I'm not going to argue but I don't believe that's true. You can youtube clips of dogs intentionally sharing food with each other and that kind of thing. I see that as moral judgement of a type. Indeed, I think there is far more to dogs than most people realize, but I don't want to go there.

    There is coercion for sure. Whether it's an attempt at shaming, an appeal to your conscience or a concrete penalty for not complying I don't think these negate one's will. In some cases they just make one doubt whether those who comply actually believe in what they're saying.
    Like I said, it gets muddled. It seems to me that college is maybe the first environment wherein students so inclined will turn away from God without much help, for example, and the reason is partly because their free choice is subtly compromised. Either it doesn't matter to them anymore, or they find it advantageous, or they see themselves turning agnostic or atheist as free choice. But is it? Not really, I think.
    Last edited by Lummy; 04-22-2020 at 01:09 PM.
    http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/120290-Vodafone-denies-5G-coronavirus-connection

  2. #12
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    In a place like North Korea, where everything you do is watched and rigidly controlled, does God really matter? You already answer to man and to the system 24/7.
    http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/120290-Vodafone-denies-5G-coronavirus-connection

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