Can there be Heaven and Hell without free choice.

[Lummy]

My opinion is that this is not possible unless one has free choice to make their life what they will.

[Mister D]

Yeah, that seems fairly obvious.

[Chris]

On earth, not having free choice is hell.

[Lummy]

Yeah, that seems fairly obvious.

Well, thanks. You are quite brilliant. No joke.

Then this constant effort to process people like pasteurized cheese is contrary to free choice.

[Mister D]

Well, thanks. You are quite brilliant. No joke.

Then this constant effort to process people like pasteurized cheese is contrary to free choice.

I don't know what this means. You have the will to decide if you shall abide by any law or regulation.

[Lummy]

Yes, I suppose that's true.

[Mister D]

Yes, I suppose that's true.

Now are you actively encouraged to obey through either conscience or force? Definitely.

[Lummy]

Does a dog rewarded with a biscuit for doing some specific act have free choice? It gets kind of muddled.

Free choice in being herded, as say through higher education, especially where indoctrination is heavy, is also gray. I'm not sure there is free choice in college, when pier pressure and academic judgements are highly political, as they are now.

[Mister D]

Does a dog rewarded with a biscuit for doing some specific act have free choice? It gets kind of muddled.

Free choice in being herded, as say through higher education, especially where indoctrination is heavy, is also gray. I'm not sure there is free choice in college, when pier pressure and academic judgements are highly political, as they are now.

None. A dog is incapable of moral reasoning or moral agency (the ability to decide and be held accountable). They're primarily instinctual.

There is coercion for sure. Whether it's an attempt at shaming, an appeal to your conscience or a concrete penalty for not complying I don't think these negate one's will. In some cases they just make one doubt whether those who comply actually believe in what they're saying.

[Chris]

None. A dog is incapable of moral reasoning or moral agency (the ability to decide and be held accountable). They're primarily instinctual.

There is coercion for sure. Whether it's an attempt at shaming, an appeal to your conscience or a concrete penalty for not complying I don't think these negate one's will. In some cases they just make one doubt whether those who comply actually believe in what they're saying.

IOW, free choice is like rights, natural rights, that you have even if some one or institution denies you them, for they are violating your rights, just as they might violate your free choice.

Rights and free will are also similar as responsibilities you're held accountable for.