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Thread: Supreme Court Will Soon Decide Whether To Reconsider Qualified Immunity

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    Supreme Court Will Soon Decide Whether To Reconsider Qualified Immunity

    https://www.cato.org/blog/may-15th-s...tion-qualified

    The Supreme Court distributed thirteen* different qualified immunity cert petitions for its conference of May 15, 2020. This is obviously no coincidence, and it means that by the morning of Monday, May 18th, we will finally know whether the Justices are prepared to confront one of the most pernicious and legally baseless doctrines in the history of the Court.

    Here's the complete list of the thirteen different petitions that have been distributed for the May 15th conference.
    ...
    https://www.cato.org/blog/may-15th-s...tion-qualified


    The fact that the Court sent all thirteen of these cases to conference on the same day -- especially after repeatedly rescheduling many of them -- is unmistakable evidence that the Justices are looking closely at the fundamental question of whether qualified immunity itself needs to be reconsidered. This is a question that Justice Thomas urged the Court to take up all the way back in 2017...

    More at link.
    You are wrong about police.

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    Officials, state or federal, elected or appointed, should be held accountable.
    Last edited by Chris; 04-30-2020 at 07:50 PM.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    "Qualified immunity"

    Just another Orwellian legal doctrine meant to insulate the authoritarian state from the traditions and norms that members of civil society have been expected to abide by for centuries.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    "Qualified immunity" Just another Orwellian legal doctrine meant to insulate the authoritarian state from the traditions and norms that members of civil society have been expected to abide by for centuries.
    No. Qualified immunity, at least in Ohio, protects the official, not the state. “The essential rationale for granting qualified immunity is that officials should not be punished for the vigorous performance of their duties by being held liable for actions that a reasonable person would not have known violated the rights of another.” Piphus v. Blum (1995), 108 Ohio App.3d 218, 224. Qualified immunity, therefore, encourages government officials to act without hesitation when confronted with a problem that requires a quick and decisive response and ameliorates the concern that most persons would be reluctant to participate in public service in the absence of such immunity. Id .
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    No. Qualified immunity, at least in Ohio, protects the official, not the state. “The essential rationale for granting qualified immunity is that officials should not be punished for the vigorous performance of their duties by being held liable for actions that a reasonable person would not have known violated the rights of another.” Piphus v. Blum (1995), 108 Ohio App.3d 218, 224. Qualified immunity, therefore, encourages government officials to act without hesitation when confronted with a problem that requires a quick and decisive response and ameliorates the concern that most persons would be reluctant to participate in public service in the absence of such immunity. Id .

    I read that as license to be reckless whereas a responsible citizen would exercise more caution. Lawyers, right?
    You are wrong about police.

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    That is the way it works everywhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    No. Qualified immunity, at least in Ohio, protects the official, not the state. “The essential rationale for granting qualified immunity is that officials should not be punished for the vigorous performance of their duties by being held liable for actions that a reasonable person would not have known violated the rights of another.” Piphus v. Blum (1995), 108 Ohio App.3d 218, 224. Qualified immunity, therefore, encourages government officials to act without hesitation when confronted with a problem that requires a quick and decisive response and ameliorates the concern that most persons would be reluctant to participate in public service in the absence of such immunity. Id .
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by Helena View Post
    I read that as license to be reckless whereas a responsible citizen would exercise more caution. Lawyers, right?
    For what it is worth the courts presume that public officials act in good faith.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helena View Post
    I read that as license to be reckless whereas a responsible citizen would exercise more caution. Lawyers, right?
    No, not reckless. Negligent but not reckless. In Ohio, if the public official is reckless immunity does not apply. It's all statutory in Ohio. As a law clerk in 1985, I was involved in one of the first cases to abolish sovereign immunity. The legislature reacted and rewrote our political subdivision liability laws. It takes reckless and is subject to an immediate appellate review.

    If you think about it, it makes sense. Reckless is the absence of any care. Negligence is the failure to do what a reasonable official would have done in the same or similar circumstances. In Ohio, at least, it's not another Orwellian legal doctrine meant to insulate the authoritarian state from the traditions and norms that members of civil society have been expected to abide by for centuries.


    ...and, no, private citizens don't operate police chases, or bust through doors to arrest drug dealers, or run through the streets racing to get to a fire to save someone's life.


    Read this opinion (take note who one of the lawyers was): https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/ro...-Ohio-5711.pdf

    https://law.justia.com/cases/ohio/su...2011-0743.html
    Last edited by DGUtley; 05-01-2020 at 07:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    No, not reckless. Negligent but not reckless. In Ohio, if the public official is reckless immunity does not apply. It's all statutory in Ohio. As a law clerk in 1985, I was involved in one of the first cases to abolish sovereign immunity. The legislature reacted and rewrote our political subdivision liability laws. It takes reckless and is subject to an immediate appellate review.

    If you think about it, it makes sense. Reckless is the absence of any care. Negligence is the failure to do what a reasonable official would have done in the same or similar circumstances. In Ohio, at least, it's not another Orwellian legal doctrine meant to insulate the authoritarian state from the traditions and norms that members of civil society have been expected to abide by for centuries.


    ...and, no, private citizens don't operate police chases, or bust through doors to arrest drug dealers, or run through the streets racing to get to a fire to save someone's life.


    Read this opinion (take note who one of the lawyers was): https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/ro...-Ohio-5711.pdf

    https://law.justia.com/cases/ohio/su...2011-0743.html
    I will read it.

    I'm thinking semantics are largely at play with wording and how officials are treated with qualified immunity regarding "negligence" vs the man on the street. I have some other things to say but I'm short on time.
    You are wrong about police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helena View Post
    I will read it. I'm thinking semantics are largely at play with wording and how officials are treated with qualified immunity regarding "negligence" vs the man on the street. I have some other things to say but I'm short on time.
    No, semantics are not at play. These are real life distinctions.
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