User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: A Liberal Strawman Argument about Liberty

  1. #1
    Points: 665,303, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 84.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,554
    Points
    665,303
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    A Liberal Strawman Argument about Liberty

    The following argument is a strawman against what we might call "conservative" liberty and for "liberal" liberty. The conservative or at least libertarian view of liberty is simply not the libertine one as freedom from responsibility but of acting responsibly in the sense of getting what one wants requires at least an exchange in which others are given what they want. This invisible hand view is simply not acceptable either to the liberal who, at least in the following argument insists liberty comes from compliance with the state, a Rousseauian contradiction.

    None of this really comports well with the ancient view of liberty which assured one the freedom to participate in the polity of the community. That ancient liberty depends on a people or nation with shared traditions and institutions and values and interests.

    Michigan coronavirus protesters shout 'liberty!' — as right-wing rhetoric weaponizes freedom

    ...And yet, as the quarantine protests make clear, a popular yet factually and legally inaccurate sentiment has infected the minds of many Americans. To paraphrase, it goes something like this: "This is America, and I am free to do whatever I want!"

    But, actually, no. You can't. Americans must abide by laws, regulations and codes, from their towns' garbage collection rules to the federal law declaring that 18 is the legal voting age. The general — indeed, patriotic — spirit is that collectively, as Americans, we will follow these laws to promote and ensure the "general welfare" of "the people" — all people — "of the United States."
    (I'm ignoring how this liberal then tries to tie liberty to racism.)
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  2. #2
    Points: 47,380, Level: 53
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 1,470
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranTagger First Class25000 Experience Points
    Perianne's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    11366
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    6,767
    Points
    47,380
    Level
    53
    Thanks Given
    2,360
    Thanked 2,534x in 1,379 Posts
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Geez, @Chris. That is the most twisted thing I have read in a long time. I feel I have lost a couple of IQ points just for having read it.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Perianne For This Useful Post:

    stjames1_53 (05-17-2020)

  4. #3
    Points: 665,303, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 84.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    433316
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    197,554
    Points
    665,303
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    31,984
    Thanked 80,905x in 54,720 Posts
    Mentioned
    2011 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Perianne View Post
    Geez, @Chris. That is the most twisted thing I have read in a long time. I feel I have lost a couple of IQ points just for having read it.
    Yes, it's hard to believe someone could be so deluded about liberty.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    stjames1_53 (05-17-2020)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts