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Thread: Worship is Essential: President Trump Vows to Override Governors on Religious Liberty

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    RichardMZhlubb's Avatar Senior Member
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    If your god can’t find you in your house, you should probably find a new god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    If your god can’t find you in your house, you should probably find a new god.
    Your government can you.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    pjohns's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    If your god can’t find you in your house, you should probably find a new god.
    I simply do not have "a god"; rather I have God (a.k.a. YHWH--the Tetragrammaton--which, with vowels arbitrarily inserted, is typically known as Yahweh--or the Latinized term, Jehovah).

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    Dr. Who's Avatar Advisor
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    "[S]ecular practices such as going to a movie"--or the eighteenth-century equivalent thereof--are not protected by the First Amendment...
    Isn't the right to peaceful assembly also covered under the 1st Amendment? People do assemble in a movie theater.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    The COTUS doesn’t give anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    I mean both. The Constitution creates the government but also limits it's power.

    As you said, the BOR does not give anything. Least of all preferential treatment to the religious.
    No, you are mistaken on both counts. The COTUS gave us the vote, defined powers and so much more. The BOR 1A conveyed to the religious a freedom from governmental control on the exercise (and establishment) thereof. It did not so convey the same restraint on the government outside of religion within those defined powers.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Strict scrutiny is a judicial test that was only established in the 50s and 60s in the context of 1st Amendment challenges on freedom of speech but it is not in an of itself derivative or even reflective of the Constitution but instead a manifestation of political expediency in the courts. A more fundamental judicial test would be whether the challenged government act is motivated by an illegitimate purpose.

    That said, 1st Amendment rights or in this case, restrictions on government power, only bind the Federal Government and are only extended to the States by way of the Commerce Clause, the Necessary and Proper Clause as well as the Fourteenth Amendment - specifically the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses. The Tenth Amendment provides that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people". Unless you can find constitutional jurisdiction over State authority with respect to acting in the interests of the public health, SCOTUS cannot apply the strict scrutiny test.

    Returning to Jacobson v. Massachusetts:

    "The police power of a State embraces such reasonable regulations relating to matters completely within its territory, and not affecting the people of other States, established directly by legislative enactment, as will protect the public health and safety.

    While a local regulation, even if based on the acknowledged police power of a State, must always yield in case of conflict with the exercise by the General Government of any power it possesses under the Constitution, the mode or manner of exercising its police power is wholly within the discretion of the State so long as the Constitution of the United States is not contravened, or any right granted or secured thereby is not infringed, or not exercised in such an arbitrary and oppressive manner as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.

    The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

    It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine."
    The 14th bound the BOR to the states. End of story.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    The 14th bound the BOR to the states. End of story.
    In part, where incorporated, but the part under discussion was incorporated.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Private Pickle's Avatar Advisor
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    No, you are mistaken on both counts. The COTUS gave us the vote, defined powers and so much more. The BOR 1A conveyed to the religious a freedom from governmental control on the exercise (and establishment) thereof. It did not so convey the same restraint on the government outside of religion within those defined powers.
    Like I said it didn't give us the government rather as you said defined/limited the powers of the government. The COTUS does not provide any explicit right to vote so to say it gives us that right is incorrect. The BOT 1A protects the rights that are inalienable to mankind. It does not deliver those rights. The 10th covers rights that are not explicitly protected by the Constiution and leaves that up to the "States, or to the people".
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Essential isn't the issue unless Christians want to argue that liquor stores and marijuana distributors are essential. I don't consider churches essential but I do consider the Constitution essential to America and the Constitution, which liberals hate, protects religion.

    I know some Christians who don't like free speech, a free press, the right to bear arms, or many of the other rights recognized--not granted--in the Constitution.


    The Constitution has been under serious attack since our first socialist president over 80 years ago.

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    midcan5's Avatar Senior Member
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    I admit I'm not religious today but I don't ever remember the Bible or the religious suggesting we do stupid unsafe things that could kill our loved ones and ourselves. Religion has changed that's for sure.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

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