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Thread: Bring Back a True Gunboat

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    Bring Back a True Gunboat

    Bring Back a True Gunboat

    This is an interesting article about the need for a true littoral combat vessel. They would be cheap and a squadron of them could patrol and control a larger area than a $700M LCS.

    A Proven Gunboat Design

    The Navy’s problem remains its obsession with blue-water ships and big-budget contracts instead of stepping back and rationally thinking about what is actually needed to fulfill requirements at a cost-effective level in terms of construction, use, and the risk of combat losses. The enemy of “good enough” is the desire for perfection and there is no reason to spend time and money reinventing the wheel when a proven gunboat design already exists that is good enough for the Navy’s littoral combat needs. A modern version of the Fairmile D motor torpedo boat—the famous Dog Boats of the Royal Navy’s coastal forces in World War II—is what the U.S. Navy needs today.


    The Fairmile D boats were the most heavily armed and successful gunboats of World War II. They were not the fastest boats, but as a general-purpose craft called on for many different functions, they were the best available. At 115 feet long and 20 feet 10 inches wide with three Packard engines, it could travel at speeds up to 29 knots at full load with a displacement of between 95 and 120 tons. It could also carry a 30-man crew while drawing only 5 feet of water and operate in Force 4 seas. It was an excellent example of a gunboat that was “good enough” and could be produced quickly.


    A modern version of the Fairmile D boat would have a fiberglass hull instead of a wooden one, power supplied by commercial high-speed gas (possibly water jet?) engines with a small auxiliary engine for those occasions when stealth is needed, and commercial off-the-shelf communication equipment, radar, and sonar. This would keep the cost per unit to a minimum. It is important to remember that these craft are intended to go in harm’s way instead of more valuable assets, such as the $700 million LCS.


    Furthermore, by using the same inlaid pre-drilled and tapped mountings strips first pioneered in the Fairmile B motor launches, the Navy would have the ability to swap out weapons systems as needed for various missions. With the use of some tools (and a liberal amount of WD-40), crews could swap out systems as varied as a recoilless rifle, powered and unpowered automatic weapons, antiship missile launchers, mine-laying and -sweeping gear, depth charges, and perhaps even a modern form of Mousetrap antisubmarine rocket system. Lastly, a versatile, general-purpose, high-speed, shallow-draft vessel that can be tailored to the buyer’s needs has potential for the civilian, law enforcement, and military export markets.
    A Perfect Support Base

    The Navy has a proven design to transport and support these modern gunboats. The Whidbey Island-class dock landing ship (LSD), which just got a service life extension, can operate as a mobile support base for a squadron of six gunboats. With accommodation for 500-plus Marines and other facilities, the ship is ideally suited to support the personnel needed to man and maintain the gunboats while deployed. Without Marines embarked, compartments previously dedicated to Marine supplies and equipment could be converted to machine shops and repair facilities, and the 440-foot well deck will hold three pairs of gunboats with room to spare. The gunboats themselves would be placed in manually operated scissors-type hydraulic cradle arms that would be bolted in place to the well deck floor for transportation and servicing. The cradles themselves would be individual sections that could be bolted into position by either the crew manually or with the aid of a small crane truck. When not needed, they can be unbolted and stowed along the side or at the forward end of the well deck.


    The Whidbey Island design includes a long, clear afterdeck for operating V-22 Osprey aircraft and helicopters. By foregoing Osprey operations and adding a hanger capable of housing helicopters with a contingent of armed UAVs, the ship’s aviation detachment would be able to provide ship-to-shore transport, reconnaissance and rescue, infiltration and extraction of special forces, and air support for interdiction and antisubmarine operations.


    Numbers Matter

    In littoral warfare, numbers matter and a simple analysis of the LCS program versus a modern class of Fairmile Ds bears this out. For one $700 million LCS several squadrons of gunboats could be acquired. For the cost of two LCS units, the Navy could acquire three more improved Whidbey Island-class LSDs, with the added benefit of adding to the amphibious ship fleet.


    A true gunboat in substantial numbers offers these advantages:

    • Self-supporting units that can be deployed to any location where naval forces are needed.
    • A deployed squadron can cover and control a far larger area than a single ship can.
    • Provide heavy fire support for the infiltration and extraction of special operations teams.
    • Two or more squadrons to the Persian Gulf region would provide additional escort craft in contested and counter to the swift IRGCN gunboats.
    • A vessel capable of being rapidly reconfigured for a variety of tasks, including search and rescue, reconnaissance, convoy escort, piracy suppression, mine laying, minesweeping, and antisubmarine work against the shallow-water diesel submarine threat.
    • A valuable asset in the domestic fight against drug and human smuggling by sea.
    • Increased opportunities for early command experience for junior officers and a practical platform for small-boat handling.
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    We are looking at smaller drone ships and boats. Lightly manned or no personnel at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    We are looking at smaller drone ships and boats. Lightly manned or no personnel at all.
    I am not a fan of unmanned ships outside of specific applications like mine sweepers.
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    I read that too. It sounded good, yaknow, bringing back the river boats from 'nam, John Kerry with his 3 owie's and ticket home. Everyone asleep on JFK's PT boat, engine's off, when it got rammed.....ect..ect...ect The PT boats were pretty good at one thing, as AAA platforms against the Japs. Thats how we used them at Midway, we just parked them in the Lagoon and let them rip at the lightly built Jap planes.

    But today? The LCS was such a boondoggle I just can't see any real need for a gunboat. We dont need them here off out coastlines and if we need them off anothers then we did something wrong to begin with. And then theres the American need to cram every type of system and weapon on them until your $2 m gun boat now costs $80 m. The I-ranian's, out of sheer desperation, took every fishing boat and speed boat they could get their hands on, put a few guns on them, and called them gun boats. In reality they would get picked off like flies in a conflict.

    We have Patrol craft dont we? What kind of size and armament you talking?
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    I would vote for a few .30's, some .50's and that magnificent 25mm.
    Then maybe six or eight small AA missiles, some small anti-ship ones and you are good to go.

    Big problem though. Where would they be based. It has to be close.
    Maybe a barge like we had in the gulf, or an LST like in 'Nam.
    (do we even have LSTs anymore?)

    Then a supporting helo squadron like HAL-3 back in 'Nam.
    When it is not allowed to be questioned, it is not science, it is PROPAGANDA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retirednsmilin308 View Post
    I would vote for a few .30's, some .50's and that magnificent 25mm.
    Then maybe six or eight small AA missiles, some small anti-ship ones and you are good to go.

    Big problem though. Where would they be based. It has to be close.
    Maybe a barge like we had in the gulf, or an LST like in 'Nam.
    (do we even have LSTs anymore?)

    Then a supporting helo squadron like HAL-3 back in 'Nam.
    A Perfect Support Base

    The Navy has a proven design to transport and support these modern gunboats. The Whidbey Island-class dock landing ship (LSD), which just got a service life extension, can operate as a mobile support base for a squadron of six gunboats. With accommodation for 500-plus Marines and other facilities, the ship is ideally suited to support the personnel needed to man and maintain the gunboats while deployed. Without Marines embarked, compartments previously dedicated to Marine supplies and equipment could be converted to machine shops and repair facilities, and the 440-foot well deck will hold three pairs of gunboats with room to spare. The gunboats themselves would be placed in manually operated scissors-type hydraulic cradle arms that would be bolted in place to the well deck floor for transportation and servicing. The cradles themselves would be individual sections that could be bolted into position by either the crew manually or with the aid of a small crane truck. When not needed, they can be unbolted and stowed along the side or at the forward end of the well deck.


    The Whidbey Island design includes a long, clear afterdeck for operating V-22 Osprey aircraft and helicopters. By foregoing Osprey operations and adding a hanger capable of housing helicopters with a contingent of armed UAVs, the ship’s aviation detachment would be able to provide ship-to-shore transport, reconnaissance and rescue, infiltration and extraction of special forces, and air support for interdiction and antisubmarine operations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usaf81 View Post
    I read that too. It sounded good, yaknow, bringing back the river boats from 'nam, John Kerry with his 3 owie's and ticket home. Everyone asleep on JFK's PT boat, engine's off, when it got rammed.....ect..ect...ect The PT boats were pretty good at one thing, as AAA platforms against the Japs. Thats how we used them at Midway, we just parked them in the Lagoon and let them rip at the lightly built Jap planes.

    But today? The LCS was such a boondoggle I just can't see any real need for a gunboat. We dont need them here off out coastlines and if we need them off anothers then we did something wrong to begin with. And then theres the American need to cram every type of system and weapon on them until your $2 m gun boat now costs $80 m. The I-ranian's, out of sheer desperation, took every fishing boat and speed boat they could get their hands on, put a few guns on them, and called them gun boats. In reality they would get picked off like flies in a conflict.

    We have Patrol craft dont we? What kind of size and armament you talking?
    Yep Patrol Boats. Cyclone Class.





    As of 2015, 10 of the U.S. Navy's 13 Cyclone-class patrol ships were deployed to the Persian Gulf to deal with a potential conflict with Iran.[2] The remaining three ships of the class are slated to be transferred to Naval Station Mayport in Florida to work primarily with drug interdiction work with U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command (USNAVSO) / U.S. Fourth Fleet …..snip~


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone-class_patrol_ship
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