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Thread: Chauvin now charged with 2nd degree murder

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier8 View Post
    No, you charge either 2nd or 3rd, not both. The second charge is 2nd degree manslaughter. Now the prosecution has to prove intent and why he was given the 3rd in the first place.
    2nd degree manslaughter requires negligence, not intent.

    2019 Minnesota Statutes



    Resources

    Chapter 609

    Section 609.205

    Topics

    Recent History






    609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

    A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:
    (1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or
    (2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or
    (3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or
    (4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or
    (5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.
    If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Did they keep the 3rd degree murder charge and add the 2nd, or swap them?
    Kept it. I posted a link. Showboating by Ellison for the masses since the 2nd would be very hard to prove because they would have to prove 'intent'.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The first charge was 3rd degree murder.
    Which they kept. It is on the link I posted.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Apparently they kept the murder 3 charge.
    Smart move. But as a former prosecutor I would not charge a higher crime if I didn't think the elements are there. In the military that can be problematic. I had a case where my leadership basically told me to charge the higher crime which I didn't think happened. So I charged both. But at trial I offered no evidence on the higher crime- the element that I had a problem with. After I rested my case the judge asked if I was sure that he thought I missed something. I said, no your honor I didn't miss anything in my case.

    He knew me well since he was the only military judge on Ft. Drum. He looked at me, and then said, OK I get it, then dismissed that charge. I won the case so my leadership decided to STFU about what I did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    2nd degree manslaughter requires negligence, not intent.

    2019 Minnesota Statutes

    Resources
    Chapter 609
    Section 609.205
    Topics
    Recent History




    609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

    A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:
    (1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or
    (2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or
    (3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or
    (4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or
    (5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.
    If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.



    An example of 2nd would be if neighbors Bill and Will got into an argument and Bill came over and Will grabbed a shotgun in his garage and blasted Bill would be 2nd. The difference between 1st and 2nd is premeditation. Will, by grabbing a shotgun and killing Bill would be intent to kill without premeditation. The reason they charged Chauvin with 3rd in the first place is because they knew 2nd would have to prove intent. Adding 2nd is just showboating by Ellison.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Did they keep the 3rd degree murder charge and add the 2nd, or swap them?
    It depends on what media report you read, but I think the 2nd degree charge has been added to the list.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Mahatma Gandhi

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Smart move. But as a former prosecutor I would not charge a higher crime if I didn't think the elements are there. In the military that can be problematic. I had a case where my leadership basically told me to charge the higher crime which I didn't think happened. So I charged both. But at trial I offered no evidence on the higher crime- the element that I had a problem with. After I rested my case the judge asked if I was sure that he thought I missed something. I said, no your honor I didn't miss anything in my case.

    He knew me well since he was the only military judge on Ft. Drum. He looked at me, and then said, OK I get it, then dismissed that charge. I won the case so my leadership decided to STFU about what I did.
    Like I said before this is just Ellison showboating for the masses. They would have a hard time proving 2nd.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Smart move. But as a former prosecutor I would not charge a higher crime if I didn't think the elements are there. In the military that can be problematic. I had a case where my leadership basically told me to charge the higher crime which I didn't think happened. So I charged both. But at trial I offered no evidence on the higher crime- the element that I had a problem with. After I rested my case the judge asked if I was sure that he thought I missed something. I said, no your honor I didn't miss anything in my case.

    He knew me well since he was the only military judge on Ft. Drum. He looked at me, and then said, OK I get it, then dismissed that charge. I won the case so my leadership decided to STFU about what I did.
    You know that the UCMJ and civilian systems are quite different.

  11. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier8 View Post
    An example of 2nd would be if neighbors Bill and Will got into an argument and Bill came over and Will grabbed a shotgun in his garage and blasted Bill would be 2nd. The difference between 1st and 2nd is premeditation. Will, by grabbing a shotgun and killing Bill would be intent to kill without premeditation. The reason they charged Chauvin with 3rd in the first place is because they knew 2nd would have to prove intent. Adding 2nd is just showboating by Ellison.
    Not under Minnesota law. Probably under the murder statutes of 45 states though.

    2019 Minnesota Statutes



    Resources

    Chapter 609

    Section 609.19

    Topics

    Recent History






    609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

    Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.

    Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or
    (2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

    §Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

    Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
    (2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Not under Minnesota law. Probably under the murder statutes of 45 states though.

    2019 Minnesota Statutes

    Resources
    Chapter 609
    Section 609.19
    Topics
    Recent History




    609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

    Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.

    Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or
    (2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

    §Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

    Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
    (2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.




    Well then, you can ignore the prosecutors concern since they must not know the law.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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