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Thread: Washington D.C. set to become the 51st State...vote on Friday

  1. #191
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    MMC's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    The constitution may be your foundation, but it isn’t mine. It’s just a 250 year old legal document by a small fraction of long-dead men, and those men do not get to decide what I believe to be morally and philosophically correct.
    This is hilarious.....the Constitution isn't your foundation. Yet you need the protections that the Constitution gives you. Just to exist in this country.

    But then in your uhm…..philosophy. You think you are an American.
    Last edited by MMC; 07-03-2020 at 07:09 AM.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    I am aware. I am not Lawful Good, I am Chaotic Good. The law is not always right and in this case, it is wrong.
    I thanked you for the D&D reference.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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  4. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    There is no legitimate reason why a US citizen in Wyoming should have 50 times the representation in the Senate of a US citizen in Texas.
    The Senate representation isn't proportional. The House of Representatives is proportional. It was designed that way to give all states equal say in the Senate. I know you knew that, I'm just reminding you.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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  6. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    The Senate representation isn't proportional. The House of Representatives is proportional. It was designed that way to give all states equal say in the Senate. I know you knew that, I'm just reminding you.
    Also originally senators were appointed by state legislature’s. Their purpose was to represent the issues these state legislators wanted addressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    The Senate representation isn't proportional. The House of Representatives is proportional. It was designed that way to give all states equal say in the Senate. I know you knew that, I'm just reminding you.
    And I’ll just repeat what I said already. It’s an outdated concept that should be revised. Senate representation doesn’t have to be strictly proportional, but it should give greater weight to states that represent significantly greater portions of the US population and economy. If it were up to me, I’d add 75 senators and allocate them to the biggest states (e.g., 4 new senators to each of the 5 biggest states, 3 to the next 5, etc.). California and Texas combined have almost 20% of the US population and produce almost 25% of US GDP. Their residents should have more weight in the Senate that the residents of Wyoming and Vermont, which have about 0.4 percent of the US population and produce about 0.4 percent of GDP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    And I’ll just repeat what I said already. It’s an outdated concept that should be revised. Senate representation doesn’t have to be strictly proportional, but it should give greater weight to states that represent significantly greater portions of the US population and economy. If it were up to me, I’d add 75 senators and allocate them to the biggest states (e.g., 4 new senators to each of the 5 biggest states, 3 to the next 5, etc.). California and Texas combined have almost 20% of the US population and produce almost 25% of US GDP. Their residents should have more weight in the Senate that the residents of Wyoming and Vermont, which have about 0.4 percent of the US population and produce about 0.4 percent of GDP.
    I disagree. It was designed to prevent exactly what you are proposing.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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  11. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    And I’ll just repeat what I said already. It’s an outdated concept that should be revised. Senate representation doesn’t have to be strictly proportional, but it should give greater weight to states that represent significantly greater portions of the US population and economy. If it were up to me, I’d add 75 senators and allocate them to the biggest states (e.g., 4 new senators to each of the 5 biggest states, 3 to the next 5, etc.). California and Texas combined have almost 20% of the US population and produce almost 25% of US GDP. Their residents should have more weight in the Senate that the residents of Wyoming and Vermont, which have about 0.4 percent of the US population and produce about 0.4 percent of GDP.
    Do you believe that the US constitution is outdated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Senators are suppose to represent the state, not individuals. Although the 17th Amendment screwed that up. The senate should be returned to state representation (repeal the 17th) or abolish the senate as redundant.
    You may recall the thread on this topic a couple of months ago. I asked several members - you included, if I recall correctly - a number of times what "representing the state" (as opposed to "representing the people") would look like in the real world - how and why a Senator chosen by his state's legislature might, in theory, vote differently than one popularly elected.

    After several pages of non-answers, D.G. finally stepped up and offered his example of an anti-abortion bill that had appeared before the Senate in which one of his state's Senators, Sherrod Brown, had voted against it. The point I believe he was attempting to make was that if Brown had been appointed by the Ohio state legislature he would have been more likely to follow that body's direction on that (and presumably every) vote, and to vote more in accordance with the views and wishes of the 132 individuals who make up the General Assembly - because he would have, in a very real sense, owed them his job. The presumption being, in this and all other cases, that the true interests of the state are better known and supported by 132 people than by nearly 12 million.
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  14. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardMZhlubb View Post
    And I’ll just repeat what I said already. It’s an outdated concept that should be revised. Senate representation doesn’t have to be strictly proportional, but it should give greater weight to states that represent significantly greater portions of the US population and economy. If it were up to me, I’d add 75 senators and allocate them to the biggest states....
    The House of Representatives satisfies that purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Also originally senators were appointed by state legislature’s. Their purpose was to represent the issues these state legislators wanted addressed.
    If you read the history of how this scheme was actually carried out, there were allegations (and proven instances) of corruption and cronyism, with Senate seats being bought and sold, but even more instances of infighting and deadlocked votes. (One Indiana seat remained vacant for more than two years.) Over time, a number of state's legislatures - either concerned about the corrupt way the selection process was being conducted or concerned about being caught at it - voluntarily adopted the inclusion of a popular vote of the people in the process. By 1910, the legislators in 31 states (out of 46) had passed resolutions calling for a Constitutional Amendment to provide for the direct and popular election of Senators.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

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