Im baffled

[Dr. Who]

The bolded:

In our case, the liberals are using the heavy hand of the State to achieve the stated ends. They claim they want democracy but they offer socialism.

Conservatives think there are better ways to achieve those ends. And this list of ends is wrong. I can agree with containing democracy in the sense that democracy is rule of the mob, dangerous to society, and something our Founders loathed. I would swap individual rights for private interests which sounds Marxist. I would remove concerned with the rights of the few as that is simply not accurate. Keep property rights since that is the basis of capitalism. I suspect that was added here as a negative, again invoking Marx or socialism.

The reason things are so "hot" now is that the two sides are close to polar opposites. It is like good v. evil. But both sides think they are good and the other evil. I know where I stand on that. Liberty good, socialism evil.

This sort of theory is fascinating and I've heard similar theories and I think all of them are worth considering.

One of the most interesting aspects -- to me -- is watching values flip and not always in a good way.

Consider that survival of the fittest was an unwritten rule that ran through every culture and society -- the strong, the warriors, the leaders -- they were valued above others, and they, in turn, protected their society. That often led to warring and the subjugation of other people, but it played out for thousands of years.

Now, the values are flipping from respect and honor of the strong, to respect and honor of the weak and the meekest among us. Is that sustainable? I don't think so. At least not for very long.

Enter the crisis in the theory you posted. Law and order flipped on its ear. Demand for a living wage no matter the work ethic or skill. Tearing down statues and memorials that were built to honor strength and leadership. Allowing the inmates to run the asylum (CHOP) in Seattle. Making excuses for looters and rioters (they're so angry at not being equal), allowing girls sports to be upended by trans who have a very different muscle and hormone set.

Now, if you're a victim (or perceived victim; Bubba, Smollett, #MeToo) you're thrust into the spotlight as some sort of saint. It's an honor to be a victim. It's shameful to be strong.

I don't think it's sustainable, but it is fascinating to observe. I think the crisis is coming, although the peak is still a few years -- or decades -- off.

I watch these kids who are destroying everything and I understand that they think they're doing the right thing -- they think they're changing the world to make it a better place. Their hearts are in the right place, but they're not intellectually engaging. Perhaps we can't avoid this cycle. I just hope we can survive it.

I think that as Gamewell suggested, the last period of major activism in America took place between the 1950's and the 1970s where you had the Civil Rights, Women's Liberation, Anti-war and Environmental Movements which was followed by a period of generally progressive legislation and fairly liberal fiscal and social policy lasting until the 1980s with a gradual shifting to the right, beginning with less liberal fiscal policy but eventually including increasingly conservative legislation, the loosening of restrictions on financial institutions and more conservative social policy characterized by wars on crime and drugs, increased policing, abortion debate etc. and a re-emergence of activism developing in the new millennium i.e. civil rights (black, LGBTQ, women), environmental and anti-war. If this is a cyclical process and the past is a predictor of the future, then a shift to the left will occur.

[jet57]

Im not mentioning any names...and this is not an insult thread.

Im baffled how this forum and others and the country itself has so many intelligent people, far more educated and many alot more intelligent than I can believe what the democrats are doing right now today is RIGHT or good for the country im not talking just the riots and looting, im talking the democrat agenda as a whole...socialism, men in womens bathrooms and destroying womens sports, wide open borders and on and on..the entire agenda.
I cant grasp how they think this is all good for america.

Look I understand what equality is and I understand what racism is..and I fully understand people wanting equality and to end racism....but they way they are going about it wont work..You cant force anyone to like you, you can only make them dislike you more the more you try to force them...they have to be shown why their dislike is misplaced and telling them you are going to take over and get them isnt it...

You are not going to change the fundamental patriotism of americans by tearing down statues and rewriting history

I really cant comprehend the mentality that could make intelligent people be for whats going on, I really cant

People say that about the far right every day... What intelligent people believe is that the far right is doing the wrong thing.

Civil rights for instance goes back to the founding of this country: I'll let you chew on that for a while.

Patriotism is not copyrighted by the right-wing either.

Democrats and looting and rioting do - not - go together. So your premise is muddled right from the beginning.

The Democrats for their part threw the baby out with the bath water in the late 70s when they turned from New Dealism to big money like the Republicans have always done. The paradigm had shifted under Reagan: that was the mission. That reached it's zenith with Bill Clinton. So they went to civil rights and LGBT because it's easy, they don't have to fight or go out on any limbs. Meanwhile the far right who had the door opened for them under Reagan just got crazier and crazier and Jerry Falwell and the Christian fanatics took hold of government and abortion and the race was on to see who could make the most noise.

Do not forget the media's part in all this. With Rush Limbaugh; following the shock jocks, politics turned into "Big Time Wrestling" and became a huge part of the media market and we are left today with the results. So don't even think about blaming the Democrats until you look in the mirror yourself.

[FindersKeepers]

If American conservatives didn't whine what would they do? Progress is often complex, grow up children. If you really understood what racism and inequality were, you would stop whining and vote for people who push American forward, and not vote for the hate and divisiveness Trump represents.

What a whiny excuse for shoving girls out of sports. Oh, that's real progressive.

American liberals today have almost no resemblance to classic liberals who were able to intellectually balance social reform while honoring tradition and respect for the opinions of others. Today's progressives as they like to call themselves, although they're nothing like the progressives of the Progressive Era, are a bunch of sniveling snowflakes that have set race relations in our country back 40 years. They're complete fools who argue for their own limitations.

You represent them well.

[Peter1469]

I think that as Gamewell suggested, the last period of major activism in America took place between the 1950's and the 1970s where you had the Civil Rights, Women's Liberation, Anti-war and Environmental Movements which was followed by a period of generally progressive legislation and fairly liberal fiscal and social policy lasting until the 1980s with a gradual shifting to the right, beginning with less liberal fiscal policy but eventually including increasingly conservative legislation, the loosening of restrictions on financial institutions and more conservative social policy characterized by wars on crime and drugs, increased policing, abortion debate etc. and a re-emergence of activism developing in the new millennium i.e. civil rights (black, LGBTQ, women), environmental and anti-war. If this is a cyclical process and the past is a predictor of the future, then a shift to the left will occur.

It is. Antifa / BLM led communism.

[MisterVeritis]

I don't care about understanding it. Let's identify and kill the insurrection's leaders, then move on to defeat the rabble. Cleanse the universities, all of them of their Marxists. Imprison them. Never let them poison young minds again. Round up the thugs. Identify them. Make every one of them ineligible for any federal benefit for the rest of their lives.

Find them. Fix them, and $#@! them.

[Standing Wolf]

Im not mentioning any names...and this is not an insult thread.

Im baffled how this forum and others and the country itself has so many intelligent people, far more educated and many alot more intelligent than I can believe what the democrats are doing right now today is RIGHT or good for the country im not talking just the riots and looting, im talking the democrat agenda as a whole...socialism, men in womens bathrooms and destroying womens sports, wide open borders and on and on..the entire agenda.
I cant grasp how they think this is all good for america.

Look I understand what equality is and I understand what racism is..and I fully understand people wanting equality and to end racism....but they way they are going about it wont work..You cant force anyone to like you, you can only make them dislike you more the more you try to force them...they have to be shown why their dislike is misplaced and telling them you are going to take over and get them isnt it...

You are not going to change the fundamental patriotism of americans by tearing down statues and rewriting history

I really cant comprehend the mentality that could make intelligent people be for whats going on, I really cant

I know many Democrats and people, like myself, who routinely vote that way. Not one of them favors or advocates riots and looting, allowing transgender individuals to participate in women's sports, "wide open borders" (an especially silly straw man), or mobs tearing down statues. (Or universal gun confiscation - you forgot that one, Common.)

As November's general election approaches, we will all see more and more such canards and false narratives in campaign ads and literature. A lot of people will fall for it, and that's unfortunate.

[JakeStarkey]

I am baffled that people do not understand that life does not remain concrete, that in fact human society evolves for better or for worse over time.

The US is no different than any other society in those terms.

[bulletbob]

I think the only rational explanation is that they must be so unhappy with the way things are right now, they are willing to try anything else if the changes have a positive effect (in their minds) on their lives.

I think it's just a phase we are undergoing right now and it'll pass in due time. It reminds me of the so-called hippie revolution of the late sixties/early seventies where the likes of Abbie Hoffman, Timothy Leary, Jerry Rubin and others were going to take over the country and we all would live in communes and become communists wearing flower power tee shirts and psychedelic music would replace Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett. Eventually it ended and it was just another phase the country went through. I'm thinking along these lines of thinking that it might take a few years but eventually it'll fade away like the hippie movement.

Probably no one here will agree with me, but that's my thoughts on the topic.

the way things are right now are better then they have been in hundreds of years and improving until all of the riots broke out

[carolina73]

I am baffled that people do not understand that life does not remain concrete, that in fact human society evolves for better or for worse over time.

The US is no different than any other society in those terms.

You are going under the pretense that the direction that the left wants to bring us is beneficial.

What they are proposing did not makes the US the best country in the world but did make other countries much less than #1.

Then you tell us how happy Scandinavians are. We then find out that over 55% of them are only prescription happy pills.

[gamewell45]

the way things are right now are better then they have been in hundreds of years and improving until all of the riots broke out

In my opinion the riots and violence de-legitimatizes any protest and goals that the peaceful protesters sought.