So much for that...
So much for that...
Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.
~Alain de Benoist
https://www.totallytimelines.com/tsa...-1855-to-1922/
I think other sources quote a death toll closer to 500K.
In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.
"The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
Mahatma Gandhi
Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.
Admiral Ackbar (06-30-2020)
Peter1469 (07-01-2020)
Ok lets say that you replace the Oppressive Mean Owner with the Oppressed Worker!
1st Question are you planning on Killing the owner and taking all of his or her money?
Now you have these Oppressed workers and they are now running the company, of which they have NO idea how to run.
2nd question, if employee's were so great at running companies, why is the bankruptcy rates of Employee owned businesses so high?
If I was a Customer of said company, and I liked the Quality and Price of the product and the customer service of the company Why would I believe that it would stay the same, and without the leadership were is quality control and innovation going to come from
Question #3 are you planning on telling the workers that they can't have a raise because if you gave them a raise you would have to increase the prices of the product and that would cause the company to loose money
Now that the employee's are running the company and the Utopia has begun, what are you going to create so when the current product line becomes obsolete, you have new and exciting products to bring to the market, and a great launch marketing campaign to get the ball rolling
Question 4 If the Utopia is going to exist, the workers are going to demand more, and that will cause less revenue, so there will be no money for R&D. Where is this new found utopia going to get the money to create new products and pay the people that need to invent them?
I await a reasonable answer
A couple years back I had a discussion with Kilgram, as socialist, and Who. We reached the point of replacing owners with workers and I asked what if the owner refuses? And the answer was to use force, whatever force is necessary. I mean, you're supposed to wait for the collapse of capitalism, but when it doesn't well, even Marx used force.Ok lets say that you replace the Oppressive Mean Owner with the Oppressed Worker!
1st Question are you planning on Killing the owner and taking all of his or her money?
Now you have these Oppressed workers and they are now running the company, of which they have NO idea how to run.
They neither have any idea how to run a company nor would it be possible to so so democratically or by committee, or how to trade with other companies.
Because they neither know nor ore capable of running a company.2nd question, if employee's were so great at running companies, why is the bankruptcy rates of Employee owned businesses so high?
If I was a Customer of said company, and I liked the Quality and Price of the product and the customer service of the company Why would I believe that it would stay the same, and without the leadership were is quality control and innovation going to come from
Knowing that, you should not expect anything good to come out of the worker-owned company. You'd take your business elsewhere. If there was an elsewhere amid all the failing worker-run companies. The system would collapse.
Well, if production quality and quantity go down then the workers will have to accept loss just like the ex-owner risked.Question #3 are you planning on telling the workers that they can't have a raise because if you gave them a raise you would have to increase the prices of the product and that would cause the company to loose money
Now that the employee's are running the company and the Utopia has begun, what are you going to create so when the current product line becomes obsolete, you have new and exciting products to bring to the market, and a great launch marketing campaign to get the ball rolling
I think the whole incentive for innovation goes out the door.
Utopias by definition do not exist.Question 4 If the Utopia is going to exist, the workers are going to demand more, and that will cause less revenue, so there will be no money for R&D. Where is this new found utopia going to get the money to create new products and pay the people that need to invent them?
Hopefully my answers were reasonable and honest.I await a reasonable answer
Socialism is nonsense. A pipe dream.
Don't mistake my explaining socialism for my advocating it.
OTOH, do we want to serve capitalism? On a global scale?
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
MisterVeritis (07-01-2020)
@FindersKeepers sorry for the delay, ended up working a lot of overtime this week, lol.
I'm not sure what you mean here by "dominates labor." I'm also not really sure it reduces motivation, or discourages entrepreneurship and invention. In Cuba, for example, they have made a number of pretty neat inventions, engineering marvels, and clever DIY projects. As this article reports, the combination of free education leading to a lot of Cubans holding engineering degrees and the boycott that kept them from receiving trade goods forced them to get creative, and they came up with some good stuff.
You also have the case of Nicola Tesla, who invented the brilliant things he invented to give people free electricity. "Free" isn't a profit motive.
People already labor for the good of their communities and themselves. Marx isn't describing anything unprecedented there. The difference is, instead of the fruits of your labor going to line the pockets of Jeff Bezos or fund a military project for Virginia when you live in Tennessee (or wherever, just an example, lol), it's going to improve your community. That's what is meant here. He explains it a little better in the Critique than I do, lol.In the emboldened, therein lies its downfall. Only when humans (not 'laborers' or 'workers') have the freedom to work toward their own goals, rather than the goals of community government, can they be free.
That's a fair criticism. I don't think it necessarily must be that way, however. Jeff Bezos doesn't stop being the wealthiest man in the world just because he pays his employees a fairer wage based on the work they do and the value they produce. He'll still be the wealthiest man in the world, with more money than he will ever be able to do anything with. He could almost single-handedly save capitalism by just raising his employees' wages and giving them more of a stake in the success of the company. Why not do it?Marx's LTV is unsustainable because it removes the motivation for the inventor or entrepreneur to excel. It transfers the value from the one who comes up with the idea or the business to the peon who produces nothing but the labor required to produce the product or service. This, essentially, is the biggest downfall of Marx theory and it greatly slows down technical progression.
But, nothing you've posted here is new. This is all Marxism 101, and anyone who's graduated from high school (should) know this stuff.
"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
- Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President