User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 57

Thread: What Is Marxism?

  1. #11
    Points: 308, Level: 3
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 42
    Overall activity: 22.0%
    Achievements:
    250 Experience Points
    JakeStarkey's Avatar Member
    Karma
    38
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Intermountain West
    Posts
    130
    Points
    308
    Level
    3
    Thanks Given
    30
    Thanked 28x in 24 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Capitalism is private onwership that terrorizes labor.

    Marxism is public ownership that terrorizes private owners.

  2. #12
    Points: 44,614, Level: 51
    Level completed: 63%, Points required for next Level: 636
    Overall activity: 26.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    FindersKeepers's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    158855
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    14,575
    Points
    44,614
    Level
    51
    Thanks Given
    7,649
    Thanked 11,490x in 7,070 Posts
    Mentioned
    166 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    Plenty of people have opinions on Marxism, and the label is thrown around an awful lot. Unfortunately, most of the people talking about Marxism have never actually studied it or even read Marx, they are just going off of what they are told by their preferred media mouthpieces. Those media mouthpieces themselves have likely never read Marx, they just throw his name and ideology around and slap it onto anything they want people to oppose. Red baiting never went away with McCarthyism, it just became more widespread.
    So, what is Marxism?
    Marxism is a socio-political philosophy that maintains the idea that society is effectively divided into multiple classes, the primary two being the laborer and the capitalist they labor for. In Marxism, the wealthy capitalist class exploits the labor of the labor class by limiting the laborer's share of their own labor to maximize the wealthy capitalist's profits. There are two main theories that form the foundation of Marxism: The Theory of Distribution and the Labor Theory of Value.
    The Theory of Distribution:
    The Theory of Distribution exists in multiple ideologies, including socialism and capitalism. In Marxism, the Theory of Distribution is as follows:
    The Theory of Distribution as it exists in capitalism is limited to income taxes, although it can also be applied to charitable giving that's thought of as required, such as tithing to one's church.

    The problem with Marx's idea of distribution is that dominates labor, and as such, reduces motivation and discourages entrepreneurship and invention. Even the capitalist tax system, which is deplorable, still allows for the freedom of individual business creation, which is the backbone of capitalism.
    - Critique of the Gotha Program, Karl Marx, 1875 free link
    Now, this has most commonly been misinterpreted (either through ignorance or maliciousness on the part of Marx's detractors) to mean that those who labor will have the product of their labor taken from them to give to those in need. But that's not actually how Marx explains it in his Critique of the Gotha Program. What this theory of distribution actually means is essentially that all laborers in a given society labor for the good of the community, and from that community production they receive the exact amount they contributed. Before the laborer's portion is allocated, deductions are made for community services such as hospitals, schools, and a social welfare system for those unable to work. Marx explains it in the Critique such:
    In the emboldened, therein lies its downfall. Only when humans (not 'laborers' or 'workers') have the freedom to work toward their own goals, rather than the goals of community government, can they be free.

    Labor Theory of Value:
    Now, on to the Labor Theory of Value (LTV). The LTV is a theory that argues goods and services are valued based on the labor it took to produce them. To Marx, this meant that a laborer should be compensated for their labor based on the value of their production. To use a simple example not intended to be representative of actual implementation based on current economics, say you have a cobbler making a pair of shoes for, I don't know, Nike. Nike pays their cobbler minimum wage, which would be $7.25 an hour. The shoes the cobbler produces sell for $100, however. The cobbler would have to work approximately 14 hours on that one pair of shoes in order to receive the full value of his labor. If the cobbler finishes the pair of shoes in five hours and they are still a well-designed pair of shoes that sell for $100, the cobbler is only receiving $14.50 out of the value of their labor, which is 14.5% of the value. To Marx, this indicates the laborer is being exploited by the wealthy capitalist class, because the cobbler produced the value but only received 14.5% of that value, while the bosses performed almost no labor and received 85.5%.
    Conclusion:
    Whether or not you agree with Marx is your choice, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with his theories. I disagree with some of the things he proposed. We must strive to ground our opposition in reality, however, and at least try to stay informed about the issues we support or oppose. I can't promise you won't become a Communist by reading Marx ( ), but I can promise it will not cause you any harm
    Marx's LTV is unsustainable because it removes the motivation for the inventor or entrepreneur to excel. It transfers the value from the one who comes up with the idea or the business to the peon who produces nothing but the labor required to produce the product or service. This, essentially, is the biggest downfall of Marx theory and it greatly slows down technical progression.

    But, nothing you've posted here is new. This is all Marxism 101, and anyone who's graduated from high school (should) know this stuff.
    "What happens is of little significance compared with the stories we tell ourselves about what happens. Events matter little, only stories of events
    affect us.

    ~Rabih Alameddin


  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FindersKeepers For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (06-30-2020),Peter1469 (06-30-2020)

  4. #13
    Original Ranter
    Points: 581,764, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    438142
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    173,243
    Points
    581,764
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    105,060
    Thanked 89,124x in 59,684 Posts
    Mentioned
    2291 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    By "State control" I'm sure you mean regulations: a very Randian mindset. Capitalism fits into economic theory through market dynamics and controls on your end of said market. We have seen over and over again that laissez -faire as a practice in capitalism just dos not work and that those without wind up footing the bill through ruin and starvation, hence Marxism. Capitalism consistently eats too much and throws the banana peels into it's own path by allowing the greedy and the crooks to run amok.
    Where have we seen laissez-faire capitalism?
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Please visit my blog http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/peter/
    (If a post link does not work, see the archives- it should work there.)

  5. #14
    Original Ranter
    Points: 581,764, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    438142
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    173,243
    Points
    581,764
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    105,060
    Thanked 89,124x in 59,684 Posts
    Mentioned
    2291 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is a childish interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
    Capitalism is private onwership that terrorizes labor.

    Marxism is public ownership that terrorizes private owners.
    Did you mean exploits? That is the Marxist view of capitalism.

    You second sentence just doesn't make any sense- there is no private ownership in Marxism.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Please visit my blog http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/peter/
    (If a post link does not work, see the archives- it should work there.)

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    zelmo1234 (06-30-2020)

  7. #15
    Original Ranter
    Points: 581,764, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    438142
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    173,243
    Points
    581,764
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    105,060
    Thanked 89,124x in 59,684 Posts
    Mentioned
    2291 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The OP is a good baseline for defining Marxism.

    When we discuss capitalism, let's not use the Marxist characterization of capitalism. OK?

    Here is a dictionary definition:

    Definition of capitalism

    : an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
    We can add with some level of regulation by government.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Please visit my blog http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/peter/
    (If a post link does not work, see the archives- it should work there.)

  8. #16
    Points: 486, Level: 4
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 64
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    31 days registered250 Experience Points
    Pammy's Avatar Junior Member
    Karma
    89
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    67
    Points
    486
    Level
    4
    Thanks Given
    18
    Thanked 79x in 45 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why, then, if it's so great, does it always require armed revolution to install and keep in force?

  9. #17
    Original Ranter
    Points: 581,764, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    438142
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    173,243
    Points
    581,764
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    105,060
    Thanked 89,124x in 59,684 Posts
    Mentioned
    2291 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pammy View Post
    Why, then, if it's so great, does it always require armed revolution to install and keep in force?
    Their ideas are so good they have to be mandated.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Please visit my blog http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/peter/
    (If a post link does not work, see the archives- it should work there.)

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    FindersKeepers (06-30-2020),Pammy (06-30-2020),zelmo1234 (06-30-2020)

  11. #18
    Points: 147,236, Level: 92
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 3,014
    Overall activity: 27.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdrive50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupVeteran
    Green Arrow's Avatar Overlord
    Karma
    619934
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    47,643
    Points
    147,236
    Level
    92
    Thanks Given
    54,186
    Thanked 24,683x in 16,206 Posts
    Mentioned
    1670 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
    Capitalism is private onwership that terrorizes labor.

    Marxism is public ownership that terrorizes private owners.
    Neither of those are accurate. Capitalism is simply the production of goods and services for a profit (rather than for human need as in socialism or communism) and the accumulation of wealth (capital). Private ownership for the most part doesn’t exist in Marxism, so you can’t terrorize private owners.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

  12. #19
    Points: 147,236, Level: 92
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 3,014
    Overall activity: 27.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdrive50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupVeteran
    Green Arrow's Avatar Overlord
    Karma
    619934
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    47,643
    Points
    147,236
    Level
    92
    Thanks Given
    54,186
    Thanked 24,683x in 16,206 Posts
    Mentioned
    1670 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pammy View Post
    Why, then, if it's so great, does it always require armed revolution to install and keep in force?
    Did the American revolution not require force of arms to succeed? Do conservatives now not prepare for the day they have to maintain their livelihoods through force of arms?
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

  13. #20
    Points: 99,713, Level: 76
    Level completed: 91%, Points required for next Level: 237
    Overall activity: 54.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    zelmo1234's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    148430
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    MICHIGAN
    Posts
    37,818
    Points
    99,713
    Level
    76
    Thanks Given
    14,951
    Thanked 11,707x in 8,623 Posts
    Mentioned
    356 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Flaw in Marxism is it always assumes that people will work at the same level. And that the economy will thrive

    As you can tell by my posting hours I am off working quite a bit. Most of the reason for my absence was NO time, we The Red Head and I started a new venture for us, and it took a lot of learning and work to get it off the ground.

    We have the Construction business that I still oversee, and the rental properties, which we are still trying to expand as well.

    If you put me in a Marxist system I am not going to be running a business with over 150 employee's I want to be the greater at a Walmart.

    Because I can have everything that I need for don't just that

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to zelmo1234 For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (06-30-2020)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Single Sign On provided by vBSSO