The roots of the Secessionist Movement

[carolina73]

So you'd rather have over bloated corporate estates running the country? That's what the antebellum south was ya'know.

You know nothing about the South.

[Chris]

That's just NC about private property (slaves) The entire south seceded over private property?

Nahh... You said "grievances"... plural; where are all those violations of the constitution?

Read the document, and don't get back to me unless you have something reasonable to say.

[jet57]

Let's simplify this a little bit. From the southern point of view, the federal government was taxing the $#@! out of them and spending the proceeds to benefit northern interests.

That's not a constitutional violation. There were a lot things that the south didn't like, again, going back to the antifederalists in my view, but it seem,s that slavery was the only thing that they could hang their hats on. It's always an an interesting discussion though. Sometimes I really wonder what would have happened had Lee not fought at Gettysburg.

[jet57]

You know nothing about the South.

My family's from the south dude. We came into NC in 1765, my 7th gen grandfather was a NC line officer and militia capt. We fought on both sides of the war between the states. I'm a genealogist and researcher: I have source documents... I know a lot about the south. Maybe you could take the time to educate yourself; just sayin.

[jet57]

Read the document, and don't get back to me unless you have something reasonable to say.

I did read it Chris: all 13 pages. I'm used to such documentation. Again where are the violations that you speak of - other than 'private property'?

[Mister D]

lol

[Newpublius]

That's not a constitutional violation. There were a lot things that the south didn't like, again, going back to the antifederalists in my view, but it seem,s that slavery was the only thing that they could hang their hats on. It's always an an interesting discussion though. Sometimes I really wonder what would have happened had Lee not fought at Gettysburg.

The protectionist tariff was felt by many to be unconstitutional. It would be ruled to be constitutional much later.

As an aside we can see the degree to which this was an agitation because the Confederate Constitution said:

"Sec. 8. The Congress shall have power-(I) To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises for revenue, necessary to pay the debts, provide for the common defense, and carry on the Government of the Confederate States; but no bounties shall be granted from the Treasury; nor shall any duties or taxes on importations from foreign nations be laid to promote or foster any branch of industry; and all duties, imposts, and excises shall be uniform throughout the Confederate States."

[Chris]

The protectionist tariff was felt by many to be unconstitutional. It would be ruled to be constitutional much later.

As an aside we can see the degree to which this was an agitation because the Confederate Constitution said:

"Sec. 8. The Congress shall have power-(I) To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises for revenue, necessary to pay the debts, provide for the common defense, and carry on the Government of the Confederate States; but no bounties shall be granted from the Treasury; nor shall any duties or taxes on importations from foreign nations be laid to promote or foster any branch of industry; and all duties, imposts, and excises shall be uniform throughout the Confederate States."

Right, the point is not whether it was a violation of the Constitution, according to some court or expert, but whether the South saw it that way. After all, we are talking about what they saw as reasons to secede.

[jet57]

The protectionist tariff was felt by many to be unconstitutional. It would be ruled to be constitutional much later.

As an aside we can see the degree to which this was an agitation because the Confederate Constitution said:

"Sec. 8. The Congress shall have power-(I) To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises for revenue, necessary to pay the debts, provide for the common defense, and carry on the Government of the Confederate States; but no bounties shall be granted from the Treasury; nor shall any duties or taxes on importations from foreign nations be laid to promote or foster any branch of industry; and all duties, imposts, and excises shall be uniform throughout the Confederate States."

Yeah, well, the south was into saving money. Removing said tariffs did come later, but at the time it was an assertion.

[jet57]

Right, the point is not whether it was a violation of the Constitution, according to some court or expert, but whether the South saw it that way. After all, we are talking about what they saw as reasons to secede.

And we know that their reasons didn't amount to a hill of beans, either then or now.