Masks should not be a political issue, dammit!

[Newpublius]

That gave me a good chuckle

[Ethereal]

That gave me a good chuckle

If the authorities and "experts" were really concerned about protecting people, they'd advise them to strengthen their immune systems, which is the number one determinant of your ability to withstand viral and bacterial pathogens. If your immune system is weak, then wearing a mask is unlikely to save you in any case.

[countryboy]

I've been saying it over and over, but it is refreshing to see someone else saying it too, and drawing an interesting comparison to WWII... I've said in another thread today that instead of being united to combat a common enemy (the virus) we are at each others' throats with the maskless people yelling "sheep" at the masked ones, and the masked ones yelling "covidiot" at the maskless ones.

So, this doctor, in a specialized publication for physicians, is venting his frustration with the issue of masks being politicized, instead of simply being seen as a matter of public health:

https://www.mdedge.com/neurology/art...VID-19 vaccine

Yeah, the "doctor" mentions "mounting data", but doesn't bother to cite any of it. If you don't want the issue to be political, then knock it off.

[countryboy]

Turns out that a right wing publication, the Wall Street Journal, also thinks that masks should not be controversial:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-c...al-11593336601

Lol, yeah, the WSJ is about as "right wing", as you are "centerfield". Which is to say, they aren't right wing at all.

[countryboy]

The CDC lied, confessedly. They were trying to preserve masks for healthcare workers and avoid a run to masks. When they realized that masks went sold out anyway because China gobbled them all up, they changed their tune.

I mean, what are they called? PPE. Personal PROTECTIVE Equipment. Of course they work. Otherwise why would they want to conserve them for healthcare workers?

Do you think that when a healthcare worker is dressed head to toe with gowns, masks, and face shields when treating COVID-19 patients, they are trying to... protect the already heavily contaminated patient from what, catching the virus that is already rampant by billions of copies inside the patient? Of course not. They are trying to avoid catching the disease themselves. They are protecting themselves. Masks protect.

What do you mean, no new science? There are scientific studies showing the efficacy of masks, released all the time!

Cite the CDC admitting they lied.

[carolina73]

And here is why so much surrounding this virus is so divisive LIES

You have the CDC lying as you have stated.

You have Gov's Cooking the books and inflating the cases especially those in the States run with a D

Then you have the State run by the R's they are playing it down Also a Lie

Then you have the medical community that gets paid more if it is Covid 19 and they are cooking the books.

When you have this much dishonesty, they everything is going to be about the politics.

Right on target. Once I saw Fauci lie and I found out that he was a Democrat political animal. then I stopped listening to him. He might as well be Susan Rice or Jonathan Gruber as far as I am concerned.

[Tahuyaman]

Turns out that a right wing publication, the Wall Street Journal, also thinks that masks should not be controversial:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-c...al-11593336601

Why do you assume the Wall Street Journal is a right wing publication? It's not. The Wall Street journal's editorial section is actually fairly liberal in nature. Their financial / business side is a bit more conservative.

[Ethereal]

Right on target. Once I saw Fauci lie and I found out that he was a Democrat political animal. then I stopped listening to him. He might as well be Susan Rice or Jonathan Gruber as far as I am concerned.

And yet Trump keeps him around...

[CenterField]

you are not aware of the Human Condition when you demand we should all wear masks.

I'm very aware of the human condition. People have trouble being inconvenienced. They may find that a ventilator is more inconvenient than a mask.

Are you a stockholder for some mask manufacturer?

No. Absolutely not. No interest in any manufacturer of PPE. My posting about this, believe it or not, is just out of a good heart. I care.

Since you admit Fauci has lied numerous times, why should we trust what he says now?

Am I advocating for believing in Fauci? I go by a large number of scientific studies.

Listen, EVERYBODY will be exposed before this is over. EVERYONE will come into contact with the virus one way or another. Masks will do nothing except slow down the inevitable. Masks do not prevent contact and does not prevent you from getting it.

Not true in various ways. Vaccines are looking promising and should be here maybe as soon as January. It's wise to be prudent until then. People may NOT catch the illness if they remain prudent then get vacciinated. Masks do not eliminate the possibility of contagion 100% but do lower the odds ratio that it will happen, as shown in literally hundreds of scientific studies.

Trying to avoid this train wreck is impossible. It is like running away from a nuclear blast.

Not true. Other countries like Spain and Japan beat it.

When I go out into public, I see hands grabbing all kinds of things. Door handles, objects handled by other shoppers, etc. Even if you wear gloves, all you are doing is spreading the virus. Wear gloves, touch multiple objects, the next guy who isn't wearing gloves gets it. He passes it along when he touches something. The most casual contact equals ongoing spreading.

Have I advocated for gloves? No. They deliver a false sense of security. In two hours they start degrading with micro pores. It is harder to do hand hygiene with gloves. Most lay people don't know how to remove them safely. Hand washing and hand sanitizers and Chlorox wipes work better to avoid surface contamination than gloves. Surface contamination appears to have been overestimated in the chain of contagion, being actually responsible for only 2% of cases. Facemasks, face shields (I know I'll never convince people to wear these), 6ft distancing, avoiding indoor agglomerations, are all much more efficient than gloves. Please don't put words in my mouth. I've never advocated for the lay people to wear gloves. Although, on occasion, for specific tasks (like filling up my car tank with gas, handling the pump and all) I wear gloves, but *I* know how to don and doff them, and as soon as the task is over I safely discard them and use hand sanitizer.

We need herd immunity. It will be the only way to overcome this.

Absolutely, most definitely NOT!!! We got so far at most 10% of our population infected (confirmed cases + ten times more of estimated missed cases) and have lost 130,000 people already. Herd immunity can be calculated using epidemiological tools. Lay people heard this concept and assume it is neat and keep repeating it around. Actually, herd immunity by widespread natural infection is uncertain for the coronavirus family for various reasons I won't get into right now, but I'll tell you this, *if* possible/effective, it needs at least 50% of the population infected for a R0 of 2.0, up to 82.5% of the population infected for a R0 of 5.7. (I could teach you how to calculate it but my posts are already too long; I did it in previous posts). So, to get to efficient heard immunity, we may have to get to an intolerable death toll, not to forget about the long-term consequences toll, because while the virus only kills 1%, it does maim an additional 5% who survive but with long-term consequences such as pulmonary scarring and kidney insufficiency. Just think of the toll that 1% dead + 5% maimed represents for a country of 330 million inhabitants, if we need to infect at least half of the population, if not 82.5% of it.

The best way to achieve populational (herd) immunity for a virus this aggressive, is to vaccinate at least 50% of the population, and vaccines are likely coming.

Sorry if I sound condescending.

[CenterField]

There's something a lot of mask-promoting folks (who mean well) miss. The N95 masks that everyone is trying to buy will not keep an infected person from spreading the virus. These are masks that are intended to be worn in a contaminated environment ONLY to protect the one wearing the mask. That little one-way exhalation valve spews the virus (if the person has it) right into the air.



If the argument is that wearing a mask keeps infected folks from spreading the virus, be aware that you can't protect anyone if you're infected and you're wearing this mask.

There are surgical N95 masks as well that do not have the valve, and those are more effective at preventing virus spew.

Homemade cloth masks probably all differ in protective ability, depending on the cloth, whether a filter was added, etc., but they're likely not too great at containing or protecting against a virus.

Note the warning on the bottom of the mask. They're not risk-free.

I know. When have I advocated for non-health care workers and non-workers of industries that deal with toxic particulates, to wear N95 masks out in the community??? Of course they are one-way (at least the ones with exhalation valves; some lack them). I said as much in a previous post.

I'm advocating for surgical masks, ASTM levels 1, 2, or 3, enhanced for seal with 3 rubber bands or one neoprene rubber brace. I posted the templates and instructions to get this done. Those *are* 2-way in the protection they deliver.

Who said they are risk free? I said, the proper masks lower the odds ratio of acquiring the virus. They don't lower it to zero. Now the sickness or death printed there is lawyer language to avoid lawsuits, because there's been studies showing no drop in ox sat and not build up of CO2 even in people with asthma and COPD wearing masks although I do find it hard to believe (I get a bit dizzy and headachy if I wear an N95 with a good seal for too long). Sure, in some extreme cases they might be detrimental which is what the company is trying to avoid in terms of lawsuits. But short-term use of an N95 to accomplish a specific task has never killed anyone.

Again, I don't recommend N95s to people who don't even know how to fit, seal, and test them for seal, and don and doff them properly. These are specialized mask. I know how to deal with them, and I know what they are for. Most people don't.