Schools Need to Reopen.....

[Tahuyaman]

Do you criticize liberals for using that as a source?

Adelaide responded to that but deleted it. I wonder why

[Adelaide]

Adelaide responded to that but deleted it. I wonder why

There you go, Princess.

[Tahuyaman]

There you go, Princess.

You did. You responded then deleted it.

Why? I’m not sure what that idiotic response was supposed to accomplish though.

[Adelaide]

You did. You responded then deleted it. Why?

Because I'm tired from not sleeping and I'm sick of having pointless arguments with a hapless twit.

[CenterField]

Germany peaked early-April, and schools opened on April 20.

Norway peaked early-April, kindergartens opened April 20, and primary/secondary students went back in May.

Denmark peaked early-April and kindergartens opened April 15, with primary and secondary students going back on May 18. Universities are still closed until August 1.

Here is a super easy graph to read based on the JHU data:

Attachment 30233

Thanks. It also shows what people try not to see, that Sweden's strategy was not good. I read last week an article saying that Sweden didn't even get an economic benefit. Their economy was hit anyway. So, they got the worst of two worlds with their stubborn refusal to implement serious containment.

Anyway, I do understand the issue of parents with school children who need to go back to work, and the issue of children who need classroom instruction.

I do think that we'll need to open the schools... some precautions would be nice, and probably they're already being implemented (I'm not following this issue closely as I do not have school-age children any longer, both my kids are young adults who are no longer students).

1) Children should be screened at the door just like visitors in hospitals are screened: require mask to enter the building and stay in the building (I realize that it will be harder to enforce with younger children), contactless temperature check, questionnaire for respiratory illness symptoms, send home if there is fever or symptoms and provide for COVID-19 test

2) Teachers should be given high performing medical-grade masks with proper training to achieve good seal, face shields or goggles, and hand sanitizers. Teachers should never get closer than 6ft to children. I know for the younger ones it will be hard to accomplish; but at least, as much social distancing as possible.

3) Desks should be as far away from each other as possible. I know that it will be impossible in small classrooms.

4) As possible, crowding in halls and corridors should be avoided with some sort of staggered times for classes so that children move in and out of classrooms at different times and not all together when bells ring.

5) Classroom windows should be open, with fans operating, regardless of room temperature (fans in hot days, space heaters in cold days, appropriate clothing for the children to face the temperature). Open circulation of air to/from the outdoors decreases the odds of transmission (while recirculation of air in closed environments increases them). Maybe environmental UV lights should be installed, too, for aerosol inactivation.

The public health risk for the children themselves is small. Deaths by COVID-19 in school-age children are *extremely* rare. There's been a handful of deaths caused by Kawasaki syndrome and rare cases of stroke, associated with the virus. This is infinitesimally small when compared to the youth population at large. I mean, that shouldn't really stop the reopening. Children are likely more at risk for a transportation crash during the car or bus commute to/from school than for dying from COVID-19.

More significant is the risk to teachers and parents. The teachers might be fine with good PPE. The parents will be more exposed because whoever has had school-age children knows that the dear little devils are germ reservoirs and carry home all sorts of viruses. My wife and I used to rarely catch a cold, until our kids reached school age... Once they left the nest, our rate of respiratory illnesses went down again.

But even that is a bit overblown, as I read a study showing that children as asymptomatic carriers and spreaders of COVID-19 are a much rarer event than adult person-to-person transmission.

So, yes, I think we should reopen the schools, but it would be nice to get the 5 precautions above, as much as possible. I understand that ideal and real are two different things, but I'm just proposing the ideal precautions.

[Tahuyaman]

Because I'm tired from not sleeping and I'm sick of having pointless arguments with a hapless twit.

Now you’ve gone full retard.

[Peter1469]

Thanks. It also shows what people try not to see, that Sweden's strategy was not good. I read last week an article saying that Sweden didn't even get an economic benefit. Their economy was hit anyway. So, they got the worst of two worlds with their stubborn refusal to implement serious containment.

Anyway, I do understand the issue of parents with school children who need to go back to work, and the issue of children who need classroom instruction.

I do think that we'll need to open the schools... some precautions would be nice, and probably they're already being implemented (I'm not following this issue closely as I do not have school-age children any longer, both my kids are young adults who are no longer students).

1) Children should be screened at the door just like visitors in hospitals are screened: require mask to enter the building and stay in the building (I realize that it will be harder to enforce with younger children), contactless temperature check, questionnaire for respiratory illness symptoms, send home if there is fever or symptoms and provide for COVID-19 test

2) Teachers should be given high performing medical-grade masks with proper training to achieve good seal, face shields or goggles, and hand sanitizers. Teachers should never get closer than 6ft to children. I know for the younger ones it will be hard to accomplish; but at least, as much social distancing as possible.

3) Desks should be as far away from each other as possible. I know that it will be impossible in small classrooms.

4) As possible, crowding in halls and corridors should be avoided with some sort of staggered times for classes so that children move in and out of classrooms at different times and not all together when bells ring.

5) Classroom windows should be open, with fans operating, regardless of room temperature (fans in hot days, space heaters in cold days, appropriate clothing for the children to face the temperature). Open circulation of air to/from the outdoors decreases the odds of transmission (while recirculation of air in closed environments increases them). Maybe environmental UV lights should be installed, too, for aerosol inactivation.

The public health risk for the children themselves is small. Deaths by COVID-19 in school-age children are *extremely* rare. There's been a handful of deaths caused by Kawasaki syndrome and rare cases of stroke, associated with the virus. This is infinitesimally small when compared to the youth population at large. I mean, that shouldn't really stop the reopening. Children are likely more at risk for a transportation crash during the car or bus commute to/from school than for dying from COVID-19.

More significant is the risk to teachers and parents. The teachers might be fine with good PPE. The parents will be more exposed because whoever has had school-age children knows that the dear little devils are germ reservoirs and carry home all sorts of viruses. My wife and I used to rarely catch a cold, until our kids reached school age... Once they left the nest, our rate of respiratory illnesses went down again.

But even that is a bit overblown, as I read a study showing that children as asymptomatic carriers and spreaders of COVID-19 are a much rarer event than adult person-to-person transmission.

So, yes, I think we should reopen the schools, but it would be nice to get the 5 precautions above, as much as possible. I understand that ideal and real are two different things, but I'm just proposing the ideal precautions.

Sweden's economy didn't take a hit from COVID. It took a hit because it gives out more social welfare benefits than it can afford, especially after absorbing migrants from North Africa and Southwest Asia. Had it locked down, its economy would be worse off.

[CenterField]

Here is a very interesting New York Times article about school reopening, saying many of the things I said above, but with links to substantiate especially the research part about children being low spreaders of the virus (although it is also said that this is from preliminary research that hasn't been confirmed). There are interesting examples of school children who had the virus and didn't pass it to *anyone* at school, but there are also where it did happen.

It is interesting to realize that the American Academy of Pediatrics has recommended school re-opening. I think it makes sense.

And for those who shoot the messenger given that the New York Times is a mostly progressive newspaper, do know that the overall tone of the article is in favor of reopening the schools, including, citing real damage done to child development and socialization by not attending school.

The article quoted a couple of other ideas to enhance safety that I hadn't mentioned. Random testing of students and staff. Alternation of days in-school and days online to reduce the number of students at school in any given day. Grouping children in pods or cohorts so that infection doesn't spread widely when it does happen. Pictures in the articles show in Thailand that they built clear screens around desks.

The article also says that the CDC guidelines are weak, only mentioning social distancing, wearing masks, and washing hands, and having nothing about airborne transmission (the article like me also recommends opening the windows and talks en passant of curtailing airborne transmission (I wonder if my idea of UV lights would help).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/11/h...0b62cada27fcc7

[MMC]

You used Wikipedia, which isn't really a source, and you used aggregate data of ALL of Europe when we are not talking about ALL of Europe.

I posted a graph a couple pages ago that should help explain it to you.

Yeah I used Wiki with what references they had. I did that so it could help you filter about the Wuhu still raging in the countries that were mentioned in your chart.

Btw where was that link with your charts?

[MMC]

No, just MMC so far; pointing out some hypocrisy.

LMAO you didn't point out any hypocrisy tho. Since I use leftist sources to debunk your kind. But it is your kind that comes with the Source excuse. Showing your hypocrisy. Doesn't matter Right leaning source. Your kind complains. Now use a leftist source and they do what you did. Thinking there is no out from that game.

Good thing a lot of times I use both left and Right sources. Yet it still doesn't stop your ilk from playing the Source tactic. Then I throw in and overseas source and you leftists come up with some other lame excuse.