User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31

Thread: Coronavirus: Why everyone was wrong.....

  1. #11
    Original Ranter
    Points: 388,252, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdriveTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    MMC's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    70170
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    89,892
    Points
    388,252
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    54,131
    Thanked 39,167x in 27,728 Posts
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    How is it that the virus "disappears in the summer" when there have been more new cases in the past week than there has been of any week this year? And the number of new cases has been rising every week for the past month?
    Because it based on Sars and any influenza, which a couple of decades ago ended during summer. Because people who have been tested having been infected for over a month. They knew in the beginning that more people were infected than what was reported. More testing, more infections counted.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

  2. #12
    Points: 33,557, Level: 44
    Level completed: 74%, Points required for next Level: 393
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album pictures25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Leanne778's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    1292
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    6,399
    Points
    33,557
    Level
    44
    Thanks Given
    3,769
    Thanked 1,287x in 1,046 Posts
    Mentioned
    328 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Firstly, it was wrong to claim that this virus was novel. Secondly, It was even more wrong to claim that the population would not already have some immunity against this virus. Thirdly, it was the crowning of stupidity to claim that someone could have Covid-19 without any symptoms at all or even to pass the disease along without showing any symptoms whatsoever.


    But let’s look at this one by one.


    1. A new virus?

    At the end of 2019 a coronavirus, which was considered novel, was detected in China. When the gene sequence, i.e. the blueprint of this virus, was identified and was given a similar name to the 2002 identified Sars, i.e. Sars-CoV-2, we should have already asked ourselves then how far [this virus] is related to other coronaviruses, which can make human beings sick. But no, instead we discussed from which animal as part of a Chinese menu the virus might have sprung. In the meantime, however, many more people believe the Chinese were so stupid as to release this virus upon themselves in their own country. Now that we’re talking about developing a vaccine against the virus, we suddenly see studies which show that this so-called novel virus is very strongly related to Sars-1 as well as other beta-coronaviruses which make us suffer every year in the form of colds. Apart from the pure homologies in the sequence between the various coronaviruses which can make people sick, [scientists] currently work on identifying a number of areas on the virus in the same way as human immune cells identify them. This is no longer about the genetic relationship, but about how our immune system sees this virus, i.e. which parts of other coronaviruses could potentially be used in a vaccine.


    So: Sars-Cov-2 isn’t all that new, but merely a seasonal cold virus that mutated and disappears in summer, as all cold viruses do — which is what we’re observing globally right now. Flu viruses mutate significantly more, by the way, and nobody would ever claim that a new flu virus strain was completely novel. Many veterinary doctors were therefore annoyed by this claim of novelty, as they have been vaccinating cats, dogs, pigs, and cows for years against coronaviruses.


    2. The fairy tale of no immunity


    From the World Health Organisation (WHO) to every Facebook-virologist, everyone claimed this virus was particularly dangerous, because there was no immunity against it, because it was a novel virus. Even Anthony Fauci, the most important advisor to the Trump administration noted at the beginning at every public appearance that the danger of the virus lay in the fact that there was no immunity against it. Tony and I often sat next to each other at immunology seminars at the National Institute of Health in Bethesda in the US, because we worked in related fields back then. So for a while I was pretty uncritical of his statements, since he was a respectable colleague of mine. The penny dropped only when I realised that the first commercially available antibody test [for Sars-CoV-2] was put together from an old antibody test that was meant to detect Sars-1. This kind of test evaluates if there are antibodies in someone’s blood and if they came about through an early fight against the virus. [Scientists] even extracted antibodies from a llama that would detect Sars-1, Sars-CoV-2, and even the Mers virus. It also became known that Sars-CoV-2 had a less significant impact in areas in China where Sars-1 had previously raged. This is clear evidence urgently suggesting that our immune system considers Sars-1 and Sars-Cov-2 at least partially identical and that one virus could probably protect us from the other.


    That’s when I realised that the entire world simply claimed that there was no immunity, but in reality, nobody had a test ready to prove such a statement. That wasn’t science, but pure speculation based on a gut feeling that was then parroted by everyone. To this day there isn’t a single antibody test that can describe all possible immunological situations, such as: if someone is immune, since when, what the neutralising antibodies are targeting and how many structures exist on other coronaviruses that can equally lead to immunity.



    In mid-April, work was published by the group of Andreas Thiel at the Charité Berlin. A paper with 30 authors, amongst them the virologist Christian Drosten. It showed that in 34 % of people in Berlin who had never been in contact with the Sars-CoV-2 virus showed nonetheless T-cell immunity against it (T-cell immunity is a different kind of immune reaction, see below). This means that our T-cells, i.e. white blood cells, detect common structures appearing on Sars-CoV-2 and regular cold viruses and therefore combat both of them.


    A study by John P A Ioannidis of Stanford University — according to the Einstein Foundation in Berlin one of the world’s ten most cited scientists — showed that immunity against Sars-Cov-2, measured in the form of antibodies, is much higher than previously thought. Ioannidis is certainly not a conspiracy theorist who just wants to swim against the stream; nontheless he is now being criticised, because the antibody tests used were not extremely precise. With that, his critics admit that they do not have such tests yet. And aside, John P A Ioannidis is such a scientific heavy-weight that all German virologists combined are a light-weight in comparison.



    3. The failure of modellers

    Epidemiologist also fell for the myth that there was no immunity in the population. They also didn’t want to believe that coronaviruses were seasonal cold viruses that would disappear in summer. Otherwise their curve models would have looked differently. When the initial worst case scenarios didn’t come true anywhere, some now still cling to models predicting a second wave. Let’s leave them their hopes — I’ve never seen a scientific branch that manoeuvred itself so much into the offside. I have also not yet understood why epidemiologists were so much more interested in the number of deaths, rather than in the numbers that could be saved.



    What now?

    The virus is gone for now. It will probably come back in winter, but it won’t be a second wave, but just a cold. Those young and healthy people who currently walk around with a mask on their faces would be better off wearing a helmet instead, because the risk of something falling on their head is greater than that of getting a serious case of Covid-19.


    On our way back to normal, it would be good for us citizens if a few scaremongers apologised. Such as doctors who wanted a triage of over 80 year old Covid patients in order to stop ventilating them. Also media that kept showing alarmist videos of Italian hospitals to illustrate a situation that as such didn’t exist. All politicians calling for “testing, testing, testing” without even knowing what the test actually measures. And the federal government for an app they’ll never get to work and will warn me if someone near me is positive, even if they’re not infectious.....snip~


    https://medium.com/@vernunftundricht...g-fce6db5ba809


    This Top Immunologist is now out talking about How Fauci got it all wrong. Moreover he also notes where the confusion comes in with Immunologists not agreeing with virologists and epidemiologists. More importantly is his advice for up and coming winter season.
    What a bunch of crap! Holy $#@!!

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Leanne778 For This Useful Post:

    Bo-4 (07-17-2020),Mini Me (07-19-2020)

  4. #13
    Points: 435,862, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 100.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranOverdriveSocial
    Awards:
    Frequent Poster
    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    308622
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Bremerton, Washington
    Posts
    184,810
    Points
    435,862
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    20,287
    Thanked 77,637x in 56,021 Posts
    Mentioned
    707 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Firstly, it was wrong to claim that this virus was novel. Secondly, It was even more wrong to claim that the population would not already have some immunity against this virus. Thirdly, it was the crowning of stupidity to claim that someone could have Covid-19 without any symptoms at all or even to pass the disease along without showing any symptoms whatsoever.


    But let’s look at this one by one.


    1. A new virus?

    At the end of 2019 a coronavirus, which was considered novel, was detected in China. When the gene sequence, i.e. the blueprint of this virus, was identified and was given a similar name to the 2002 identified Sars, i.e. Sars-CoV-2, we should have already asked ourselves then how far [this virus] is related to other coronaviruses, which can make human beings sick. But no, instead we discussed from which animal as part of a Chinese menu the virus might have sprung. In the meantime, however, many more people believe the Chinese were so stupid as to release this virus upon themselves in their own country. Now that we’re talking about developing a vaccine against the virus, we suddenly see studies which show that this so-called novel virus is very strongly related to Sars-1 as well as other beta-coronaviruses which make us suffer every year in the form of colds. Apart from the pure homologies in the sequence between the various coronaviruses which can make people sick, [scientists] currently work on identifying a number of areas on the virus in the same way as human immune cells identify them. This is no longer about the genetic relationship, but about how our immune system sees this virus, i.e. which parts of other coronaviruses could potentially be used in a vaccine.


    So: Sars-Cov-2 isn’t all that new, but merely a seasonal cold virus that mutated and disappears in summer, as all cold viruses do — which is what we’re observing globally right now. Flu viruses mutate significantly more, by the way, and nobody would ever claim that a new flu virus strain was completely novel. Many veterinary doctors were therefore annoyed by this claim of novelty, as they have been vaccinating cats, dogs, pigs, and cows for years against coronaviruses.


    2. The fairy tale of no immunity


    From the World Health Organisation (WHO) to every Facebook-virologist, everyone claimed this virus was particularly dangerous, because there was no immunity against it, because it was a novel virus. Even Anthony Fauci, the most important advisor to the Trump administration noted at the beginning at every public appearance that the danger of the virus lay in the fact that there was no immunity against it. Tony and I often sat next to each other at immunology seminars at the National Institute of Health in Bethesda in the US, because we worked in related fields back then. So for a while I was pretty uncritical of his statements, since he was a respectable colleague of mine. The penny dropped only when I realised that the first commercially available antibody test [for Sars-CoV-2] was put together from an old antibody test that was meant to detect Sars-1. This kind of test evaluates if there are antibodies in someone’s blood and if they came about through an early fight against the virus. [Scientists] even extracted antibodies from a llama that would detect Sars-1, Sars-CoV-2, and even the Mers virus. It also became known that Sars-CoV-2 had a less significant impact in areas in China where Sars-1 had previously raged. This is clear evidence urgently suggesting that our immune system considers Sars-1 and Sars-Cov-2 at least partially identical and that one virus could probably protect us from the other.


    That’s when I realised that the entire world simply claimed that there was no immunity, but in reality, nobody had a test ready to prove such a statement. That wasn’t science, but pure speculation based on a gut feeling that was then parroted by everyone. To this day there isn’t a single antibody test that can describe all possible immunological situations, such as: if someone is immune, since when, what the neutralising antibodies are targeting and how many structures exist on other coronaviruses that can equally lead to immunity.



    In mid-April, work was published by the group of Andreas Thiel at the Charité Berlin. A paper with 30 authors, amongst them the virologist Christian Drosten. It showed that in 34 % of people in Berlin who had never been in contact with the Sars-CoV-2 virus showed nonetheless T-cell immunity against it (T-cell immunity is a different kind of immune reaction, see below). This means that our T-cells, i.e. white blood cells, detect common structures appearing on Sars-CoV-2 and regular cold viruses and therefore combat both of them.


    A study by John P A Ioannidis of Stanford University — according to the Einstein Foundation in Berlin one of the world’s ten most cited scientists — showed that immunity against Sars-Cov-2, measured in the form of antibodies, is much higher than previously thought. Ioannidis is certainly not a conspiracy theorist who just wants to swim against the stream; nontheless he is now being criticised, because the antibody tests used were not extremely precise. With that, his critics admit that they do not have such tests yet. And aside, John P A Ioannidis is such a scientific heavy-weight that all German virologists combined are a light-weight in comparison.



    3. The failure of modellers

    Epidemiologist also fell for the myth that there was no immunity in the population. They also didn’t want to believe that coronaviruses were seasonal cold viruses that would disappear in summer. Otherwise their curve models would have looked differently. When the initial worst case scenarios didn’t come true anywhere, some now still cling to models predicting a second wave. Let’s leave them their hopes — I’ve never seen a scientific branch that manoeuvred itself so much into the offside. I have also not yet understood why epidemiologists were so much more interested in the number of deaths, rather than in the numbers that could be saved.



    What now?

    The virus is gone for now. It will probably come back in winter, but it won’t be a second wave, but just a cold. Those young and healthy people who currently walk around with a mask on their faces would be better off wearing a helmet instead, because the risk of something falling on their head is greater than that of getting a serious case of Covid-19.


    On our way back to normal, it would be good for us citizens if a few scaremongers apologised. Such as doctors who wanted a triage of over 80 year old Covid patients in order to stop ventilating them. Also media that kept showing alarmist videos of Italian hospitals to illustrate a situation that as such didn’t exist. All politicians calling for “testing, testing, testing” without even knowing what the test actually measures. And the federal government for an app they’ll never get to work and will warn me if someone near me is positive, even if they’re not infectious.....snip~


    https://medium.com/@vernunftundricht...g-fce6db5ba809


    This Top Immunologist is now out talking about How Fauci got it all wrong. Moreover he also notes where the confusion comes in with Immunologists not agreeing with virologists and epidemiologists. More importantly is his advice for up and coming winter season.
    This will not sit well with those who are guided by emotions.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tahuyaman For This Useful Post:

    MMC (07-17-2020),stjames1_53 (07-18-2020)

  6. #14
    Original Ranter
    Points: 863,827, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    497545
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    242,878
    Points
    863,827
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,702
    Thanked 148,555x in 94,977 Posts
    Mentioned
    2554 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leanne778 View Post
    What a bunch of crap! Holy $#@!!
    How so? Or is it just a feeling?
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    MMC (07-17-2020),stjames1_53 (07-18-2020)

  8. #15
    Original Ranter
    Points: 388,252, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdriveTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    MMC's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    70170
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    89,892
    Points
    388,252
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    54,131
    Thanked 39,167x in 27,728 Posts
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    This will not sit well with those who are guided by emotions.
    Apparently not.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

  9. #16
    Original Ranter
    Points: 388,252, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdriveTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    MMC's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    70170
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    89,892
    Points
    388,252
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    54,131
    Thanked 39,167x in 27,728 Posts
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    How so? Or is it just a feeling?
    She don't know.....her CNN and MSDNC didn't tell her how to respond to Medium, nor Sweden's Top Immunologist. Nor any of those who he cites.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to MMC For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (07-17-2020)

  11. #17
    Original Ranter
    Points: 388,252, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdriveTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    MMC's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    70170
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    89,892
    Points
    388,252
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    54,131
    Thanked 39,167x in 27,728 Posts
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leanne778 View Post
    What a bunch of crap! Holy $#@!!
    How is the Top Swedish Immunologist spewing a bunch of crap? Think first before Emoting.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to MMC For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (07-18-2020)

  13. #18
    Points: 173,946, Level: 99
    Level completed: 8%, Points required for next Level: 3,704
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsOverdriveRecommendation Second ClassVeteran
    Bo-4's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    295339
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    N Oregon Coast
    Posts
    36,763
    Points
    173,946
    Level
    99
    Thanks Given
    11,535
    Thanked 10,310x in 8,305 Posts
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leanne778 View Post
    What a bunch of crap! Holy $#@!!
    The bold maroon text dude and pals here have quite literally lost their minds.

    Their posts of late are quite literally Kray-Kray!

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Bo-4 For This Useful Post:

    Leanne778 (07-17-2020)

  15. #19
    Original Ranter
    Points: 388,252, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdriveTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    MMC's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    70170
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Posts
    89,892
    Points
    388,252
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    54,131
    Thanked 39,167x in 27,728 Posts
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bo-4 View Post
    The bold maroon text dude and pals here have quite literally lost their minds.

    Their posts of late are quite literally Kray-Kray!

    Uh oh.....Bo wants to take on Swedens top Immunologist. Step up to the plate little Bo. Don't just say $#@!. Prove him wrong.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

  16. #20
    Points: 76,771, Level: 67
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 979
    Overall activity: 44.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialYour first Group50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Calendar Award
    TheLiquidGuy's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    2051
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    20,193
    Points
    76,771
    Level
    67
    Thanks Given
    2,596
    Thanked 2,041x in 1,745 Posts
    Mentioned
    207 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Daily death rate. 7 day moving average.

    deaths.jpg


    “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the
    rest to me and the Republican congressmen”
    --Donald Trump

    Speaking to the Justice Department on Dec. 27, 2020. Conversation memorialized in then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue’s contemporaneous notes.



+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts