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Thread: Can the Illogical Inertia of American Involvement in the Middle East Be Broken?

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    Can the Illogical Inertia of American Involvement in the Middle East Be Broken?

    Can the Illogical Inertia of American Involvement in the Middle East Be Broken?

    As the article indicates, the Middle East is becoming less strategically relevant. Because the US is energy independent now, or very close to it (although Joe would end that). So if the ME is less strategically relevant, the US should reexamine its strategy for handling the region.

    The 29 February 2020 American peace deal with the Taliban, thus far, remains intact. The U.S. military has stopped going after Taliban leaders and fighters and has essentially transitioned to a counterterrorism mission against ISIS-K and similar radical elements. The American public writ-large (to include veterans) wants to leave Afghanistan, and thus supports doing whatever is necessary to withdraw. The Taliban have (mostly) done their part too; they have “refrained” from attacking U.S. and coalition forces in Afghanistan. However, Afghan soldiers, bases, and outposts with no ‘babysitting’ international forces present have been fair play for Taliban attacks. Hence, the Taliban and the U.S. have become odd-bedfellows, each with a strong interest in seeing American troops leave. However, this begs the question: Will the Taliban, an ethno-nationalist insurgent group that has relied on terrorist tactics, actually commit to promises of not allowing al-Qaeda, ISIS-K, and other terrorist organizations to thrive once international security forces are gone by 1 May 2021? The answer, we argue, is complicated.

    There is tremendous speculation concerning secret annexes and deals with the Taliban, painting the picture of what a post-Afghanistan with or without a U.S. and coalition presence might look like. Adding to this speculation is the potential reality of zero U.S. “BOG” (Boots on Ground) after 1 May 2021, and whether that ‘zero’ might actually still include a small advisor footprint of security assurance personnel to conduct counterterrorism missions against ISIS-K and any other radical extremist elements. Such a reality is nearly twenty years in the making since the first American ground forces put their boots on the ground in Afghanistan and is – to many – inconceivable. The United States has been engaged in military conflict in the Middle East for as long as some members of the active forces have been alive. At no point in U.S. history has such a phenomenon occurred before. While there is much hope for a future where the U.S. no longer requires military ground forces in the Middle East, hope is not a course of action, and this optimism overlooks the pervading motivations behind America’s longest war. The reality is that the continued illogical logic of American Middle East policy will almost certainly ensure continued military Middle East meddling for the foreseeable future. We do not have to look far for tangible examples to support this assertion.




    Syria may give some clues to the future of U.S. military entanglement in Afghanistan and Iraq. Even though President Trump boasted of pulling all American troops from Syria, leading to the perception of America abandoning the Kurds (yet again), a remnant force appeared to stay behind for advise, assist, and enable (A2E) missions with Kurdish militias at al-Tanf garrison, Syria. This base enabled a 55 km deconfliction zone, viewed cynically by some, because protecting oil fields seemed to be the primary mission of the remaining U.S. forces providing A2E to Kurdish militias in Syria. The same questionable logic and justification for continued U.S. military presence extend to the numerous bases and outposts in eastern Syria and northern Iraq supporting anti-ISIS operations, with awkward boxing outmaneuver against Russia and a bona fide ally Turkey.


    These moves, while hotly contested in foreign policy circles as to their short- and long-term implications in the region, point to a deeper systemic problem. For better or for worse, and despite the general American apathy (and antipathy) towards the Middle East, American foreign policy elites seem doggedly committed to these wars. The desire to be involved in the outcome of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and others, suggests that the gambler's fallacy has taken root. It is hard, then, for policymakers and defense hawks to walk away from the Middle East. Decades of expended blood, sweat, tears, and money, compels an enduring American presence inspired by the illogical insistence that ‘this next war will be different.’


    Emotional sentiments aside, the Middle East is becoming strategically less relevant.
    Read the rest of the article at the link.
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    I generally like all of your posts but I must take issue with this one if you don't mind.

    For Better or Worse it has fallen upon the United States to guarantee the free passage of shipping lanes around the world because we are the naval superpower. Prior to us, Great Britain was the protector of the shipping lanes when they had a global Empire. After their post World War II demise that responsibility shifted to us.

    We have two choices; we can either guarantee free shipping lanes with our Navy or we can let smaller aggressive Nations and Pirates have their way. The first choice is a pain in the ass but its better than the second choice.

    The other thing I would say is that the Middle East will become less important the more we become energy independent. Trump has made us an energy exporter for the first time in decades so that is helpful. The Democrats would reverse that and make us go down on our knees again before the Arabs. As long as oil is a vital commodity the Middle East will be important and keeping the shipping lanes open will be important. Therefore everything that interferes with that like terrorism and Isis and conflicts with the Israelis and Muslim fascism and all the rest, will be things we have to deal with in one way or another. That is our lot in life like it or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderKnight View Post
    I generally like all of your posts but I must take issue with this one if you don't mind.

    For Better or Worse it has fallen upon the United States to guarantee the free passage of shipping lanes around the world because we are the naval superpower. Prior to us, Great Britain was the protector of the shipping lanes when they had a global Empire. After their post World War II demise that responsibility shifted to us.

    We have two choices; we can either guarantee free shipping lanes with our Navy or we can let smaller aggressive Nations and Pirates have their way. The first choice is a pain in the ass but its better than the second choice.

    The other thing I would say is that the Middle East will become less important the more we become energy independent. Trump has made us an energy exporter for the first time in decades so that is helpful. The Democrats would reverse that and make us go down on our knees again before the Arabs. As long as oil is a vital commodity the Middle East will be important and keeping the shipping lanes open will be important. Therefore everything that interferes with that like terrorism and Isis and conflicts with the Israelis and Muslim fascism and all the rest, will be things we have to deal with in one way or another. That is our lot in life like it or not
    I agree that the US should keep our maritime strategy of free shipping lanes.

    I think we need to rethink our use of our army and get out of the Middle East and focus on national security interests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Can the Illogical Inertia of American Involvement in the Middle East Be Broken?

    As the article indicates, the Middle East is becoming less strategically relevant. Because the US is energy independent now, or very close to it (although Joe would end that). So if the ME is less strategically relevant, the US should reexamine its strategy for handling the region.



    Read the rest of the article at the link.
    That's all well and good, and I agree we need to rethink our Middle East policy. But I certainly wouldn't base that on some faux "peace agreement" with the Taliban, that very likely isn't worth the papyrus tablet it's written right to left on.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    That's all well and good, and I agree we need to rethink our Middle East policy. But I certainly wouldn't base that on some faux "peace agreement" with the Taliban, that very likely isn't worth the papyrus tablet it's written right to left on.

    Who cares?

    The US has no interest in who runs Afghanistan. If whomever that is supports terrorists who want to attack the West the US can end that threat at will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Who cares?

    The US has no interest in who runs Afghanistan. If whomever that is supports terrorists who want to attack the West the US can end that threat at will.
    I agree. It was just an offhand remark about the Taliban. We should've never got involved in nation building in the first place.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I agree that the US should keep our maritime strategy of free shipping lanes.

    I think we need to rethink our use of our army and get out of the Middle East and focus on national security interests.
    Well, thats the rub isn't it. We canot let that part of the world fall into total turmoil. The House of Saud and Israel and Jordan must remain secure as a balance against extremist nations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The US has no interest in who runs Afghanistan

    I always remember this line from Patton: "I can read a map"


    Gen Bradley: Hey, what's all this talk about taking the vizzini road away from second corps?

    Patton: General Alexander's orders. The road goes to Montgomery.

    Gen Bradley: No, that road was assigned to me. How can I get up north without it? Now, you know the terrain up there.

    Patton: I'm sorry, Brad, but Monty's run into tough opposition. Very tough.

    Gen Bradley: Now, you wouldn't be taking advantage of this situation, would you, George?

    Patton: I don't know what you're talking about.

    Gen Bradley: Well, without that road... Your whole army, except for my second corps, would be out of a job. Free for you to go into Palermo if you felt like it.

    Patton: Who said anything about palermo?

    Gen Bradley: I can read a map.



    Well, I can read a map too. Were you ever in the military? Look at this map, and take a guess what was in George Bush's mind going into Afghanistan and then planning to go into Iraq. Can you "read a map" like General Bradley?


    Last edited by CrusaderKnight; 08-11-2020 at 08:27 PM.

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    We broke it so we bought it.

    Trump is gluing it back together and throwing it back on the shelf not buying it.

    Costs are way down. Loss of Troops is very small.

    I think the Trump message is clear. Anyone that wants Biden and Obama's war in Afghanistan back can vote for Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderKnight View Post
    I always remember this line from Patton: "I can read a map"


    Gen Bradley: Hey, what's all this talk about taking the vizzini road away from second corps?

    Patton: General Alexander's orders. The road goes to Montgomery.

    Gen Bradley: No, that road was assigned to me. How can I get up north without it? Now, you know the terrain up there.

    Patton: I'm sorry, Brad, but Monty's run into tough opposition. Very tough.

    Gen Bradley: Now, you wouldn't be taking advantage of this situation, would you, George?

    Patton: I don't know what you're talking about.

    Gen Bradley: Well, without that road... Your whole army, except for my second corps, would be out of a job. Free for you to go into Palermo if you felt like it.

    Patton: Who said anything about palermo?

    Gen Bradley: I can read a map.



    Well, I can read a map too. Were you ever in the military? Look at this map, and take a guess what was in George Bush's mind going into Afghanistan and then planning to go into Iraq. Can you "read a map" like General Bradley?


    26 years between active Army, Reserves, and National Guard.

    I can read a map.

    I would say an invasion of Iran would be bad for the US, even more so because there is no reason to do so.

    The last I checked the Army's senior leader courses are using a conflict in the southern Caucuses that involves Iran, Turkey, the Stans, and the US as the basis of the tactical and strategic lessons.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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