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Thread: Alvin Plantinga's Free Will Defense Regarding The Problem Of Evil:

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    Alvin Plantinga's Free Will Defense Regarding The Problem Of Evil:

    JAG Writes:
    Here are the takeaway points from this piece I wrote below:
    {1} God is Omnipotent. {all powerful}
    {2} God's Omnipotence does not mean He can do anything.
    {3} God cannot make a square circle.
    {4} God cannot make 2 + 2 = 7
    {5} God cannot give man a Free Will to choose either good or evil
    and at the same time PREVENT man from choosing evil.

    With {1} through {5} in mind , , ,

    Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.
    God created a perfect world.
    God created perfect human beings.
    God gave human beings a Free Will.
    Human beings used their Free Will to choose to do evil.
    Human beings choosing to do evil is the reason we have
    natural disasters and evil in the world-- and the reason
    we have The Curse upon the Earth.

    Many atheists blame the God of the Bible for all the natural disasters
    and all the evil in the world.

    You may ask, "How can atheists blame the God of the Bible for evil
    when atheists do not believe that God exists?
    Answer: They postulate that "if God does exist" then He is evil
    because the Bible presents God as being Omnipotent {all powerful}
    and therefore He could have created a world without any evil if He had
    wanted to do that. He did not want to do that, therefore He is evil.

    So? So there are many atheists who have said that the
    God-That-Does-Not-Exist is responsible for all the evil in the world.

    What does that mean? Well again atheists do not believe that God exists
    but, for the sake of argument, they say that if the God of the Bible
    does exist, then He is responsible for all the evil in the world because
    He is Omnipotent and could have designed a world without evil.

    I just recently read a lengthy thread on another forum where
    an atheist and many of his fellow atheists blamed the God of
    the Bible for inflicting the COVID-19 virus on humanity.

    Yes, sure! Again, I know that atheists do NOT believe that God
    exists. But they, for arguments sake, argue against the God of
    the Bible and say that "if He does exist", He would be evil because
    He could prevent evil, but chooses NOT to prevent it.

    Has anyone read the books written by the infamous "New Atheists"?
    There are 4 of them. Their names are Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris,
    Daniel Dennett, and the late Christopher Hitchens.

    The atheist Richard Dawkins is an especially vile talking atheist.
    Here is what the atheist Richard Dawkins said about the God of
    the Bible:

    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant
    character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust,
    unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser;
    a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal,
    pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously
    malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

    Again, the "New Atheists" do not believe that God actually exists.
    But they say that "if He does exist" He is evil as I explained above.
    I keep repeating this because a large number of Internet posters
    endlessly state that "Atheists do not believe that God exists" as if
    we did not know that. We do know that.


    Back to what some atheists have said about the
    God-That-Does-Not-Exist . . .

    They have specifically and clearly and emphatically declared
    that the God of the Bible IS responsible for the evil in the
    world.

    Stephen Fry, an atheist, has a video on You Tube, He was
    being interviewed and he was asked, 'What would you
    say to God when you die and find out that Christianity
    is actually true, and you are standing at the pearly gates?

    Stephen Fry replied that he was going to ask God "Why he
    put bone cancer in children? God, What is that all about?",
    replied Stephen Fry.

    Stephen Fry's video went viral and has become infamous on the
    Internet. You see it quoted and linked to quite often.

    ____________

    Back to The Problem Of Evil . . .

    Centuries ago Epicurus formulated The Problem Of Evil like this:


    Sayeth Epicurus:

    “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not Omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”__Epicurus

    The Christian analytical philosopher Alvin Plantinga has a very good
    rebuttal to these "New Atheists" and to Epicurus.

    Sayeth the Christian Alvin Plantinga:

    {You will need to "deep read" what Plantinga says below
    and spend some time studying and seriously analyzing
    what Plantinga has written}

    As Plantinga summarized his Free Will defense:[14]

    "A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely
    perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else
    being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all.
    Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or
    determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so,
    then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do
    what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral
    good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of
    moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom
    to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from
    doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free
    creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their
    freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free
    creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither
    against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for
    He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only
    by removing the possibility of moral good."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_...urther_details

    End quote.
    ___________


    The "New Atheists" do not correctly understand the Biblical
    doctrine of the Omnipotence {all-powerful} of God.

    Epicurus did not correctly understand the Christian doctrine of
    God's Omnipotence. God's Omnipotence does not mean that
    He can do anything. God cannot create square circles. God
    cannot make 2 + 2 = 7. God cannot give humans the Free Will
    to do evil and at the same time prevent humans from doing evil.


    The fatal flaw in Epicurus is he misunderstood the Christian
    doctrine of the Omnipotence of the God of the Bible.

    Conclusion: Mankind, NOT God, is the cause of sin, evil, and
    natural disasters in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG View Post
    JAG Writes:
    Here are the takeaway points from this piece I wrote below:
    {1} God is Omnipotent. {all powerful}
    {2} God's Omnipotence does not mean He can do anything.
    {3} God cannot make a square circle.
    {4} God cannot make 2 + 2 = 7
    {5} God cannot give man a Free Will to choose either good or evil
    and at the same time PREVENT man from choosing evil.

    With {1} through {5} in mind , , ,

    Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.
    God created a perfect world.
    God created perfect human beings.
    God gave human beings a Free Will.
    Human beings used their Free Will to choose to do evil.
    Human beings choosing to do evil is the reason we have
    natural disasters and evil in the world-- and the reason
    we have The Curse upon the Earth.

    Many atheists blame the God of the Bible for all the natural disasters
    and all the evil in the world.

    You may ask, "How can atheists blame the God of the Bible for evil
    when atheists do not believe that God exists?
    Answer: They postulate that "if God does exist" then He is evil
    because the Bible presents God as being Omnipotent {all powerful}
    and therefore He could have created a world without any evil if He had
    wanted to do that. He did not want to do that, therefore He is evil.

    So? So there are many atheists who have said that the
    God-That-Does-Not-Exist is responsible for all the evil in the world.

    What does that mean? Well again atheists do not believe that God exists
    but, for the sake of argument, they say that if the God of the Bible
    does exist, then He is responsible for all the evil in the world because
    He is Omnipotent and could have designed a world without evil.

    I just recently read a lengthy thread on another forum where
    an atheist and many of his fellow atheists blamed the God of
    the Bible for inflicting the COVID-19 virus on humanity.

    Yes, sure! Again, I know that atheists do NOT believe that God
    exists. But they, for arguments sake, argue against the God of
    the Bible and say that "if He does exist", He would be evil because
    He could prevent evil, but chooses NOT to prevent it.

    Has anyone read the books written by the infamous "New Atheists"?
    There are 4 of them. Their names are Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris,
    Daniel Dennett, and the late Christopher Hitchens.

    The atheist Richard Dawkins is an especially vile talking atheist.
    Here is what the atheist Richard Dawkins said about the God of
    the Bible:

    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant
    character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust,
    unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser;
    a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal,
    pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously
    malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

    Again, the "New Atheists" do not believe that God actually exists.
    But they say that "if He does exist" He is evil as I explained above.
    I keep repeating this because a large number of Internet posters
    endlessly state that "Atheists do not believe that God exists" as if
    we did not know that. We do know that.


    Back to what some atheists have said about the
    God-That-Does-Not-Exist . . .

    They have specifically and clearly and emphatically declared
    that the God of the Bible IS responsible for the evil in the
    world.

    Stephen Fry, an atheist, has a video on You Tube, He was
    being interviewed and he was asked, 'What would you
    say to God when you die and find out that Christianity
    is actually true, and you are standing at the pearly gates?

    Stephen Fry replied that he was going to ask God "Why he
    put bone cancer in children? God, What is that all about?",
    replied Stephen Fry.

    Stephen Fry's video went viral and has become infamous on the
    Internet. You see it quoted and linked to quite often.

    ____________

    Back to The Problem Of Evil . . .

    Centuries ago Epicurus formulated The Problem Of Evil like this:


    Sayeth Epicurus:

    “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not Omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”__Epicurus

    The Christian analytical philosopher Alvin Plantinga has a very good
    rebuttal to these "New Atheists" and to Epicurus.

    Sayeth the Christian Alvin Plantinga:

    {You will need to "deep read" what Plantinga says below
    and spend some time studying and seriously analyzing
    what Plantinga has written}

    As Plantinga summarized his Free Will defense:[14]

    "A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely
    perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else
    being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all.
    Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or
    determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so,
    then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do
    what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral
    good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of
    moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom
    to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from
    doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free
    creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their
    freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free
    creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither
    against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for
    He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only
    by removing the possibility of moral good."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_...urther_details

    End quote.
    ___________


    The "New Atheists" do not correctly understand the Biblical
    doctrine of the Omnipotence {all-powerful} of God.

    Epicurus did not correctly understand the Christian doctrine of
    God's Omnipotence. God's Omnipotence does not mean that
    He can do anything. God cannot create square circles. God
    cannot make 2 + 2 = 7. God cannot give humans the Free Will
    to do evil and at the same time prevent humans from doing evil.


    The fatal flaw in Epicurus is he misunderstood the Christian
    doctrine of the Omnipotence of the God of the Bible.

    Conclusion: Mankind, NOT God, is the cause of sin, evil, and
    natural disasters in the world.
    Conclusion: Mankind, NOT God, is the cause of sin, evil, and
    natural disasters in the world.


    Man,you played both sides. Either God created everything or the Bible is a farce.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    Conclusion: Mankind, NOT God, is the cause of sin, evil, and
    natural disasters in the world.


    Man,you played both sides. Either God created everything or the Bible is a farce.
    Thank you for being a strong Conservative. Seriously.
    Thank you for your comments.
    And thank you for ignoring the entire substance of my Opening Post.
    And thank you for posting as if the Opening Post was not even there.

    JAG Wrote:
    Here are the takeaway points from this piece I wrote below:
    {1} God is Omnipotent. {all powerful}
    {2} God's Omnipotence does not mean He can do anything.
    {3} God cannot make a square circle.
    {4} God cannot make 2 + 2 = 7
    {5} God cannot give man a Free Will to choose either good or evil
    and at the same time PREVENT man from choosing evil.


    _________

    "Either God created everything or the Bible is a farce."___Captdon

    You say God created everything.
    God created all that looting of stores, right? {wrong} , , ,man did
    God created all that burning of buildings, right? {wrong} , , , man did

    ____________

    Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.
    God created a perfect world.
    God created perfect human beings.
    God gave human beings a Free Will.
    Human beings used their Free Will to choose to do evil.
    Human beings choosing to do evil is the reason we have
    natural disasters and evil in the world-- and the reason
    we have The Curse upon the Earth.


    JAG

    ``

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