Who do we blame?

[HawkTheSlayer]

North of the border, Ontario is the largest province in Canada with ~14 million. They have been in their final stage ("stage 3") of re-opening since mid july when their daily case count dropped to an average of 126 per day. Today, more than two weeks later, they currently see about 110 new cases per day. Masks and social distancing are the norm. Businesses are open. Hospitals are not overflowing. For contrast, Texas is twice the population of Ontario and averages about 7,800 cases per day.


Ontario daily case count.

It may still be early to see how Ontario fares, but it looks good so far. If we had a little less mask aversion and a little more discipline why not us too?


Who do I blame? Anyone who refused to encourage discipline for the shut down goals we had set for ourselves. Anyone who refused to encourage masks. Anyone who was more concerned with politics than the long term well being of society. Anyone who abandoned leadership or science. Beyond the most obvious person, there are others who also fit that description, and a few of them are not Republican.


Someone correctly told me in another thread...

The president can pressure. But he didn't. That's the problem. We needed a nation wide cohesive plan. And we almost had one. But no one stood up for it. We needed someone to lead. Instead, we got someone who takes "no responsibility" and legions of people somehow willing to agree that he shouldn't. We could have been like Ontario, instead we are charging towards NYC part II

Consider Ontario is one province with one plan.

We have 50 "provinces" each with its own plan.
The Federal government has little power to force governors to adopt a central policy.

[carolina73]

In Texas they are finding large concentrations at the meat packing plants. Everyone wears a mask. Everyone wears gloves. Everyone wears bibs and jackets.

How the heck could they get COVID when they follow more that your demands?

Maybe you listen to false prophets.


https://www.statesman.com/news/20200...t-supply-chain

[Section31]

Conflicting information. We have scientists that say wear a mask. Other scientists say the mask doesn't help. So what are you going to do when each side is as convinced as the other? Half the people say X, the other half say Y. Who's right? Who's wrong? Who's doing all of this because of politics?

[TheLiquidGuy]

In Texas they are finding large concentrations at the meat packing plants. Everyone wears a mask. Everyone wears gloves. Everyone wears bibs and jackets.

How the heck could they get COVID when they follow more that your demands?

Maybe you listen to false prophets.


https://www.statesman.com/news/20200...t-supply-chain

bibs and gloves are not impressive.

Meat plant workers have traditionally worked shoulder to shoulder and facing each other on either side of a conveyor belt. Masks can only help so much. It seems unlikely that spending 8 hours a day inside in close proximity will not be offset by surgical masks. Distancing, and enhanced ventilation seem necessary in that environment. Unfortunately how would you do distancing in a packing plant ? Also what happens between shifts? do they congregate? use the washrooms? who knows what goes on there?

[TheLiquidGuy]

Conflicting information. We have scientists that say wear a mask. Other scientists say the mask doesn't help. So what are you going to do when each side is as convinced as the other? Half the people say X, the other half say Y. Who's right? Who's wrong? Who's doing all of this because of politics?

Does anyone have any scientific studies to quote?



I have heard that studies show masks work. But I haven't read them.


surgeons have worn them to prevent their spital from launching from their nose and mouth and infecting the patient. It makes sense it would help us in the same way.


It also make sense that surgical masks help protect the wearer somewhat, but not as much.



I might have covid now. I feel fine. no symptoms. But I will wear a mask because:

1) to help encourage others to also wear them. and thus protect my family.
2) in case I have covid, or flu, why potentially destroy other people's health or lives?

[Ethereal]

COVID = over 99% survival rate

And many who died were going to die within months no matter what we did.

Two facts that completely destroy the relentless hysteria of the loony liberals.

[Section31]

I haven't had the flu in 8 yrs.

I will confess, however, I am currently in quarantine. Ordered by the county health department. I was exposed to a person who tested positive for Covid-19. I tested and I am waiting for the results. The person to whom I was exposed, has ended their quarantine yesterday. IF their test were not a false positive, they did not have a single symptom. I still have four days to go and thus far, no symptoms.

[TheLiquidGuy]

Consider Ontario is one province with one plan.

We have 50 "provinces" each with its own plan.
The Federal government has little power to force governors to adopt a central policy.

This is about leadership. Not power. All he had to do was advocate for shutdown discipline. advocate for wearing masks. He wouldn't. He could have given governors the political capital they needed to make that happen. Instead he just shrugged and went the opposite way.

When the feds want something, they have moved heaven and earth to make it happen.

Trump found a way for wall. (although that may be stopped in court.)

Where there is a will there is a way.

[Ethereal]

I haven't had the flu in 8 yrs.

I will confess, however, I am currently in quarantine. Ordered by the county health department. I was exposed to a person who tested positive for Covid-19. I tested and I am waiting for the results. The person to whom I was exposed, has ended their quarantine yesterday. IF their test were not a false positive, they did not have a single symptom. I still have five days to go and thus far, no symptoms.

I haven't been sick since 2004.

I don't take pills - not even aspirin - unless the pain is unbearable.

I don't get vaccinated.

I never go to the doctor or the dentist.

I just try to be as healthy as I can.

Because the number one determinant of your ability to fight off infections is not a mask or hand sanitizer or vaccines or pills. It's your immune system. 2020 seems to be the year that everyone forgot about the existence of immune systems.

[carolina73]

bibs and gloves are not impressive.

Meat plant workers have traditionally worked shoulder to shoulder and facing each other on either side of a conveyor belt. Masks can only help so much. It seems unlikely that spending 8 hours a day inside in close proximity will not be offset by surgical masks. Distancing, and enhanced ventilation seem necessary in that environment. Unfortunately how would you do distancing in a packing plant ? Also what happens between shifts? do they congregate? use the washrooms? who knows what goes on there?

I am not disputing that they work closely together. In fact my thinking is that this is more spread by contact than as an air-borne virus. The masks are just being oversold as a solution because they do not know what else to do. Even the mask wearing experts follow us the questions about the effectiveness of the masks by saying "it helps people from stopping the touching of their face".