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Thread: Abuse versus training

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    Abuse versus training

    A culture in gymnastics that has tolerated coaches belittling, manipulating and in some cases physically abusing young athletes is being challenged by Olympians and other gymnasts around the world after an uprising in the United States.

    Many current and former competitors, emboldened by their American peers, have broken their silence in recent weeks against treatment they say created mental scars on girls that lasted well into adulthood.

    One gymnast, who is just 8 years old
    , said a coach tied her wrists to a horizontal bar when she was 7 and ignored her as she cried out in pain.
    Gymnasts worldwide pushback on their sport's culture of abuse - NYT

    This is something that has been on my mind for a while; the difference between abuse and coaching/training. Obviously, US gymnastics has had a massive scandal involving sexual abuse that takes the spotlight but I have noticed that some of the reports of other forms of abuse seem totally normal to me.

    For example, I remember training for bars as an 8 or 9-year old and being tied to them with grips or through the use of a strap bar which is actually a technique to train you to do giants (where you fully circle the high bar). The strap bar is the safest way to learn and reduces the risk of injury because you're attached and cannot go flying. At what point does it become abuse rather than a training technique? The article I quoted mentions a girl doing so until she cried out in pain. She may not have been removed quickly enough, which is potentially an issue of logistics because the high bar you train on is typically placed above a foam pit (so no floor access) and the coach has to lean out from a box on the side and remove you from the grips. It takes time. If you're in pain you are going to have to wait. Or... it could have been coach being abusive, but it sounds pretty normal.

    A quote from the article:

    “So many of us are done with normalizing the abuse that we were told was needed to make champions,” Mason said. “We want change, and it’s incredible that so many of us are coming together to demand it.”

    Athletes are pushed physically because it's often how you become better at a skill and build muscle memory, strength, and endurance. You get to a point where you feel like you cannot do one more [whatever] and your coach says to do one more, which is going to hurt but not damage you. There is a fine balance between pushing an athlete to be better, and causing an injury by pushing one too far which is usually the biggest difference between a good coach and a bad coach. Athletes are pushed mentally because it's also about psychology in whatever sport you're involved with. A coach will often yell by nature of the enormity of these training facilities (mid-routine, while playing, depending on sport). They will tell you if you sucked. Something you did was wrong or not good enough but you try again and get a compliment because you did it better (or right). A good coach knows how to balance criticism and compliments, and when to back off and give you space.

    So, where is the line drawn physically and emotionally?
    FYIWDWYTM

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    Volleyball is safer. Beach volleyball is da bomb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide
    So, where is the line drawn physically and emotionally?
    Good question. Can the children be the judge of that? I think not in many cases. Everything is politicized, sexualized, criticized. Nothing seems to be a haven from abuse of some kind or other. It's the government that benefits from the oversight and thus more control over our lives. The simple answer and probably the most honest is that We all Need Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calypso Jones View Post


    Good question. Can the children be the judge of that? I think not in many cases. Everything is politicized, sexualized, criticized. Nothing seems to be a haven from abuse of some kind or other. It's the government that benefits from the oversight and thus more control over our lives. The simple answer and probably the most honest is that We all Need Jesus.
    Some of us more than others.

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    One thing I have never understood is how someone can consider an abusive behavior - physical or emotional - to be okay if it's being performed by a coach or even just someone a parent has hired to teach a sport, etc., when that same behavior, if it were being done by the parent themselves, would very likely constitute cause to refer the case to the Department of Child Safety.

    Generally speaking, I think the younger the child, the more care and oversight needs to take place whenever harsh training methods are being employed. A high school aged kid can probably in most cases process the yelling without internalizing it to any great extent and accept the pain as a sign that they're growing in strength, far more so than an eight- or ten-year-old girl. On the other hand, insults have no place in any training regimen, I don't care how old you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    One thing I have never understood is how someone can consider an abusive behavior - physical or emotional - to be okay if it's being performed by a coach or even just someone a parent has hired to teach a sport, etc., when that same behavior, if it were being done by the parent themselves, would very likely constitute cause to refer the case to the Department of Child Safety.

    Generally speaking, I think the younger the child, the more care and oversight needs to take place whenever harsh training methods are being employed. A high school aged kid can probably in most cases process the yelling without internalizing it to any great extent and accept the pain as a sign that they're growing in strength, far more so than an eight- or ten-year-old girl. On the other hand, insults have no place in any training regimen, I don't care how old you are.

    Insults and criticism can feel like the same thing for some adults, nonetheless children.

    Also, a lot of parents are in a different room or not within earshot when a coach is with their child. My parents never had any idea of what was being said to me unless I was being yelled at. They never visited the off-ice side of things, either; the gym where I had workouts, the nutritionist, the physiotherapist, the ballet studio... anything could have been happening.
    FYIWDWYTM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    Insults and criticism can feel like the same thing for some adults, nonetheless children.

    Also, a lot of parents are in a different room or not within earshot when a coach is with their child. My parents never had any idea of what was being said to me unless I was being yelled at. They never visited the off-ice side of things, either; the gym where I had workouts, the nutritionist, the physiotherapist, the ballet studio... anything could have been happening.
    Every student is different. When I was training, I knew when I was getting better, because the master would be much more critical of everything I did. Never complimenting. When students were beginning, he was much more patient and offered positive reinforcement.

    The more you excel in any endeavor, the more is expected. Especially if the goal is to advance. If your OP is about the Olympics, then nothing but perfection is accepted.

    If students aren't interested in being the best in the world, the coaches should know that. They can opt for different coaches/schools.

    That said, sexual/physical abuse is never acceptable. Typically, it wasn't done by the coaches from what I remember.

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    When I was a kid I played Rugby League Football and when I was in the 10s the 12s from my club fired their coach because he was too demanding. Even as a kid I thought that was pretty odd. Apparently he was asking too much of them. Im sure the kids cried to their parents to get it done but the firing was driven by the kids in the team themselves. Everyones limit is going to be different so maybe the solution is to teach kids to speak up if they are being pushed beyond their personal limits. Ultimately it is the responsibility of parents to make sure that their children are not suffering any form of abuse and them teaching their children to speak up about being pushed beyond their limits is part of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    Insults and criticism can feel like the same thing for some adults, nonetheless children.

    Also, a lot of parents are in a different room or not within earshot when a coach is with their child. My parents never had any idea of what was being said to me unless I was being yelled at. They never visited the off-ice side of things, either; the gym where I had workouts, the nutritionist, the physiotherapist, the ballet studio... anything could have been happening.
    You could have told your parents what was being said to you if you wanted to though right. If it was a problem.

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    Kids should be rewarded for success.
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