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Thread: Law Antecedent

  1. #1
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    Law Antecedent

    Just as the Constitution did not create rights, it did not create powers.


    Law Antecedent

    For the first time since 1990 I’ve just re-read Chief Justice John Marshall’s majority opinion in Marbury v. Madison (1803) for the first time since 1990. This sentence stands out:

    The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken or forgotten the constitution is written.
    Note the implication: restraints on legislative power are antecedent to the written constitution. The writing of the constitutional text in which limits on the legislature’s power are explicitly spelled out does not itself create those limits. Those limits on the legislature’s power come from somewhere other than – something prior to – the process of writing the document.

    ...Regardless of whatever origins Marshall himself identified for these limitations on legislative power, this passage strongly suggests that there is a higher, more fundamental-than-text law on which any constitution worth its ink (or pixels) must be grounded. And although I am not learned enough to know whether or not John Marshall would agree me, I would go even further and say that, at the end of the day, law cannot be created ex nihilo; like so much else that makes our civilization possible, law is (to steal a phrase popular with Hayek) “the result of human action but not of human design.”

    Law can be recorded in words (if only imperfectly). Law can sometimes be modified at its margins with words. And word-wielding legislation- or constitution-makers can, building on the law’s general principles, create specific institutions of government (such as bicameral legislatures, age-requirements for elected officials, and regular schedules for elections) – institutions that, if crafted wisely, are reasonably consistent with the evolved, unwritten, deep law. But again, law cannot be created ex nihilo - not even at Constitutional Conventions attended by the wisest and most learned men and women of the age.

    Indeed, the powers were rights the people granted government.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    midcan5's Avatar Senior Member
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    I'm missing the relevance of this thread unless it is to prop up your insecurity over the big bad wolf coming to take all your rights away? It's kinda funny to think people gave government power, rights that is, do you think they could have given them to the birds and the bees. Then you could whine the darn birds and bees are coming to get me. Why give them away at all, why not live in perfect harmony? You know kinda like a libertarian utopia. Or like how the jungle operates. We could all sing kumbaya and live happily ever after like in a fairy tale, aka wingnutland.
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    I'm missing the relevance of this thread unless it is to prop up your insecurity over the big bad wolf coming to take all your rights away? It's kinda funny to think people gave government power, rights that is, do you think they could have given them to the birds and the bees. Then you could whine the darn birds and bees are coming to get me. Why give them away at all, why not live in perfect harmony? You know kinda like a libertarian utopia. Or like how the jungle operates. We could all sing kumbaya and live happily ever after like in a fairy tale, aka wingnutland.
    I wouldn't expect a progressive to get it but to rather do just what you have, mock, ridicule, name call. Come off the play ground and learn something. Libertarianism is anti-utopian, progressivism is utopian.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    For the libertarians/voluntarists in the house, does that makes sense to you, that libertarianism/voluntarism is anti-utopian? Just curious your thoughts.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Alyosha's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    I'm missing the relevance of this thread unless it is to prop up your insecurity over the big bad wolf coming to take all your rights away?




    Two out of every three people reading this could have your electronic devices searched, without there being any reasonable suspicion, because the Department of Homeland Security has decided that such search and seizures do not violate your Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. Border agents don’t need probable cause and they don’t need a stinking warrant since they don’t need to prove any reasonable suspicion first. Nor, sadly, do two out of three people have First Amendment protection; it is as if DHS has voided those Constitutional amendments and protections they provide to nearly 200 million Americans.
    http://blogs.computerworld.com/priva...rotections-dhs

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Alyosha For This Useful Post:

    Chris (10-02-2013)

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    ^^^^^^
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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