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Thread: Bible discussions

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    James says the rich will be punished.

    Jesus says don't store up wealth.

    Keep spinning!

    Morality without choice is meaningless. If I am not allowed to accumulate wealth, I have not made the choice to act righteous. Do you think people should be prevented from accumulating wealth to stop them from defying the words Jesus said in the gospel?

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    James says the rich will be punished.

    Jesus says don't store up wealth.

    Keep spinning!
    Son, Jesus addresses idolatry. That is, the tendency of men to trust in wealth and put material gain before God. James is addressing the rich oppressors of his flock.

    If you need help understandin the bible just ask.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Morality without choice is meaningless. If I am not allowed to accumulate wealth, I have not made the choice to act righteous. Do you think people should be prevented from accumulating wealth to stop them from defying the words Jesus said in the gospel?
    I'm curious if he thinks he should be poor. Based upon his exegesis yyou might think so.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  5. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Morality without choice is meaningless. If I am not allowed to accumulate wealth, I have not made the choice to act righteous. Do you think people should be prevented from accumulating wealth to stop them from defying the words Jesus said in the gospel?
    That's not what James and Jesus said. So if you are interpreting their plain language metaphorically, that's OK with.

    The issue is the religious right says the bible must be taken literally. Taken literally, ALL the rich are damned to hell.

    By they way, why do you take issue with this saying of Jesus. It's meaning is perfectly clear and unambiguous to me. What sense exactly are you giving it.

    MATTHEW 6

    19Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal,
    20but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal.
    21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
    "Romney's 47% comment is a country-club fantasy"

    - David Brooks

  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Son, Jesus addresses idolatry. That is, the tendency of men to trust in wealth and put material gain before God. James is addressing the rich oppressors of his flock.

    If you need help understandin the bible just ask.
    Spin spin spin.

    So we're supposed to take the bible symbolically and not literally:

    James 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.

    So you see the word "Idolotry" there? I see the word "you rich".

    Seems like God has darkened your understanding, like the idolators of Romans 1
    "Romney's 47% comment is a country-club fantasy"

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  7. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Spin spin spin.

    So we're supposed to take the bible symbolically and not literally:

    James 5:1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.

    So you see the word "Idolotry" there? I see the word "you rich".

    Seems like God has darkened your understanding, like the idolators of Romans 1
    This has nothing to do with literalism versus symbolism. What do you think it means to put wealth before God? It's an idol, silly.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    That's not what James and Jesus said. So if you are interpreting their plain language metaphorically, that's OK with.

    The issue is the religious right says the bible must be taken literally. Taken literally, ALL the rich are damned to hell.

    By they way, why do you take issue with this saying of Jesus. It's meaning is perfectly clear and unambiguous to me. What sense exactly are you giving it.

    MATTHEW 6

    19Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal,
    20but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal.
    21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
    First of all I am unconvinced of the divinity of Jesus. Second, regardless of how you interpret Jesus' words, my statement still stands. Coercion and morality do not necessarily follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    First of all I am unconvinced of the divinity of Jesus. Second, regardless of how you interpret Jesus' words, my statement still stands. Coercion and morality do not necessarily follow.
    There is no morality at all if it's coerced. Similarly, there is no morality per se if it's merely a biological trait.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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  12. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    There is no morality at all if it's coerced. Similarly, there is no morality per se if it's merely a biological trait.
    Your first point: Agreed.

    Your second point: not so sure. If we understood morality the way we do because of biological origins, it does not necessarily follow that we do not make those choices. If biology compelled us to behave moral (which we know it does not), then those choices would not be moral, as you say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Your first point: Agreed.

    Your second point: not so sure. If we understood morality the way we do because of biological origins, it does not necessarily follow that we do not make those choices. If biology compelled us to behave moral (which we know it does not), then those choices would not be moral, as you say.
    The question is why are our choices moral. What does that mean? Are those choices moral because they helped us survive in past and perhaps continue to in certain ways? Why is that good? In order to make such a determination we have to refer to something external to the subject (i.e. humanity). Otherwise, it's circular reasoning: morality is useful to human survival and that's good because human survival is good.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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