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Thread: Taking Socialism Seriously

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    Taking Socialism Seriously

    This article pretty well nails the differences between the left and right.


    Taking Socialism Seriously
    In a master/slave world there is no right or wrong. There are the strong and the weak (the rich and the poor). Socialism sees the world through the prism of master/slave. From this vantage point "truth" is synonymous with "power." Socialists claim to be able to use that power, by making the state the locus of authority, to bring about justice and peace. To borrow a phrase appropriate to the occasion, let's descend to this "low but solid ground" and take socialism seriously. There is a way, using the master/slave logic of the left, to distinguish legitimate from illegitimate political power.


    These two positions are the pillars of leftist thinking:


    (1) an "objective" or fair government, and
    (2) justice through full equality.


    The second pillar (justice) can be split into a complimentary pair of concepts:


    2a) Equality before the law, and
    2b) (approximate) economic equivalence.


    If a leftist thinking person is sincere in his or her support of these aims, notice how much this person shares with conservatism. Conservatives also want (1) an objective, accountable, government and they demand (2a) equality before the law.


    The difference between a sincere socialist and a genuine conservative is that the socialist's goals depends upon the existence of


    (1) an objectively ruled and judicially unbiased state
    (2a) to establish and enforce legal equality, and
    (2b) to ensure economic equivalence -- i.e., to "spread the wealth."


    The conservative position on (2b) is that economics is not a zero sum game; wealth is not shared -- it is created and then voluntarily transferred. Government intervention will almost always favor the benefactors of the persons currently in power. Conservatives desire objective or fair legislation and the transparent administration of the law (1) as do all decent people. But, like the Founding Fathers, conservatives are skeptical that this goal can be achieved and sustained.


    In order to understand and use the Hegelian/Marxist logic of the left, one must first take these socialist objectives seriously. In fact, one must take socialist aspirations more seriously than many on the left take those goals. Here are current examples of (1) and (2b): First, President Obama's promise of transparency in government was a pledge -- attractive to the left, to moderates, and to conservatives -- for "objective" governing. Clearly, Obama has not kept his principal campaign promise. By no rational measure is "accountability" (1) a characteristic of the Obama administration. Second, Obama's stated (socialist) desire to "spread the wealth" (2b) has not been achieved -- at least not in a fashion that satisfies the aims of the left. If anything, Obama has continued the policy of the presidents who preceded him -- to spread the wealth to his well-heeled political supporters not to the poor and the middle-class.


    The reason for the disagreement between the socialist and the conservative is the socialist's acceptance of a master/slave world. Power in this world is wealth-based or economic. According to the socialist, in the modern world the masters and slaves are, respectively, the rich and the poor. An economy based on capital is, from a socialist's view, the struggle between the haves and the have-nots. (Thus, the OWS's protests and claims to be members of the "99.")...

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    There's that fairness argument again:

    "Conservatives desire objective or fair legislation and the transparent administration of the law (1) as do all decent people"


    It's unfortunate that point of decency has to come up in these discussions. It's not a matter of good versus evil. Well, not intentionally anyway, though I would say ignorance is a form of evil in some cases.

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    funny how the socialist philosophy though proven wrong over and over again , is still able to raise its ugly head. when are we gonna put a bullet in its brain and end the madness.
    The eastern world, it is exploding, violence flaring bullets loading. you are old enough to kill , but not for voting, this whole crazy world is just to frustrating, and you tell me over and over and over again my friend, you don't believe we are on the EVE of DESTRUCTION.


    Never approach a bull from the front, A horse from behind, or a fool from any direction.

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    What's really at the root of the issue isn't so much democracy or socialism or capitalism or communism or anything like that, it's the class structure and favoritism.

    In a Utopian setting, all these things have value and potential. We don't, never have or never will live in a Utopian setting so the real question that is never addressed is - what system works best in a dysfunctional class structure?
    my junk is ugly

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    Take away the Platonic/Hegelian/Maxian class structure, then ask what system works best, for that class structure is a system.

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    It really depend on the definition, by the wide definition you could easily argue that public schools are socialist too, but I hardly doubt any serious folks would claim that public schools should be abolished. (compulsary elementary school education wasn't total in the USA until the end of WW1. )

    The Marxist argument of Socialism is way over the top, but one should also realize the condition of the rise of such ideology came at the time in the later 19th and early 20th C, you know, the days when the social condition of labors in the west made China's today look like heaven in comparison.
    Last edited by RollingWave; 02-23-2012 at 10:19 PM.

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    The federal public school system should be abolished.

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    Ahhh but your talking about education's control being returned to the states, which is obviously up for debate, but if a state say... legislate so that elementary schools (or equivalents) are no longer complusary while child labor is again legal, would that really be ok? (or have any chance in hell of gaining public support?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    Ahhh but your talking about education's control being returned to the states, which is obviously up for debate, but if a state say... legislate so that elementary schools (or equivalents) are no longer complusary while child labor is again legal, would that really be ok? (or have any chance in hell of gaining public support?)
    It wouldn't be ok, but as you point out, it would be up to the state to decide. The likelihood of a state passing this would be the same as the federal government passing it - none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    Ahhh but your talking about education's control being returned to the states, which is obviously up for debate, but if a state say... legislate so that elementary schools (or equivalents) are no longer complusary while child labor is again legal, would that really be ok? (or have any chance in hell of gaining public support?)
    Yes. Then those who disagreed could move to another state and those who agreed could move there. Over time, the better system would reveal itself, or states woul borrow from each other components that worked, abandon what didn't. It's how federalism should work.

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