Death of Brit stirs intrigue in China

[RollingWave]

yeah their son is in the US, recently graduated from Harvard Post grad, i'd wager quite a lot of money that he's not going to go back to China anytime soon, if ever.

[MMC]

yeah their son is in the US, recently graduated from Harvard Post grad, i'd wager quite a lot of money that he's not going to go back to China anytime soon, if ever.

What will the effect on be on any parties.....if any?

[RollingWave]

well, it's a series of scandal for them, the Bo case is actually still somewhat controversial since under his watch the cities of Dalian and ChongQing did pretty well, and as far as personal corruption goes those aren't the most insane in relative terms, the actual more serious scandal is probably the one involving the railway minister, as China's rail (highspeed or not) have been under huge criticism for ages, so few's crying when the long time minister got arrested and charged with massive corruption.

One can spin this in many ways, on the one hand it's not bad to see them at least make some efforts at corruption, on the other hand the Bo case seems much more political than not. either way it is cutting into the people's trust in the CCP, which is why you hear more sane / reform minded folks at the top like Wen Jia Bao or Guang Dong province governor Wang Yang (who's like the anti Bo Xi Lai, as he came with no background at all, and his policy generally leans a lot more western in many sense, including letting GuangDong be the first province to seriously legalize unions and union elections.) keep touting that real political reform must come and must come soon.

you can see in recent years that it really doesn't take much to start an incident in China these days which can lead to or at least close to a full blown riot, a rumor, true or not, often is enough. the people lack of trust in most government related stuff, from civil servants to policemens. is a serious factor.

Though most countries in this stage of development is gonna be messy, (in comparison, one can look at roughly early 20th C or late 19th C USA and see enough similarity .) China is comming close to a point where their decision will deicide rather China stay at where it is now for a long time or actually take another step foward.

[MMC]

well, it's a series of scandal for them, the Bo case is actually still somewhat controversial since under his watch the cities of Dalian and ChongQing did pretty well, and as far as personal corruption goes those aren't the most insane in relative terms, the actual more serious scandal is probably the one involving the railway minister, as China's rail (highspeed or not) have been under huge criticism for ages, so few's crying when the long time minister got arrested and charged with massive corruption.

One can spin this in many ways, on the one hand it's not bad to see them at least make some efforts at corruption, on the other hand the Bo case seems much more political than not. either way it is cutting into the people's trust in the CCP, which is why you hear more sane / reform minded folks at the top like Wen Jia Bao or Guang Dong province governor Wang Yang (who's like the anti Bo Xi Lai, as he came with no background at all, and his policy generally leans a lot more western in many sense, including letting GuangDong be the first province to seriously legalize unions and union elections.) keep touting that real political reform must come and must come soon.

you can see in recent years that it really doesn't take much to start an incident in China these days which can lead to or at least close to a full blown riot, a rumor, true or not, often is enough. the people lack of trust in most government related stuff, from civil servants to policemens. is a serious factor.

Though most countries in this stage of development is gonna be messy, (in comparison, one can look at roughly early 20th C or late 19th C USA and see enough similarity .) China is comming close to a point where their decision will deicide rather China stay at where it is now for a long time or actually take another step foward.

Good Post RW.....Thanks!

[URF8]

I sometimes wonder if the CCP is just another dynasty trying to hold on to the Mandate of Heaven. The Party sometimes seems like a strange fusion of Confucianism with Leninism.

[RollingWave]

I sometimes wonder if the CCP is just another dynasty trying to hold on to the Mandate of Heaven. The Party sometimes seems like a strange fusion of Confucianism with Leninism.

yup, and more of the fomer by the day

Wang Yang, the relative more reform minded GuangDong governor, summed it up well a few days ago with this comment " we can not keep making the people believe that their rights and well being is a gift from the state"

[MMC]

In what context does that apply RW......that the rights are theirs first over believing such is a gift from the state? Or that Chinese Politicans need to start doing that?

[RollingWave]

in that the current setup is sort of like assuming that the rights and well being are a gift given by the state to the people, Wang argue that can't last, since the truth is generally the other way around ... or at least a matter of co-existence.

[URF8]

yup, and more of the fomer by the day

Wang Yang, the relative more reform minded GuangDong governor, summed it up well a few days ago with this comment " we can not keep making the people believe that their rights and well being is a gift from the state"

Wang Yang isn't part of the Standing Committee of the Politburo of the Party is he?

[RollingWave]

not yet, though most people figure that barring a Bo like episode he will be soon enough. probably as soon as this current turnover. IIRC Wen Jia Bao seems to see him as an idealogoical comardefor the most part (At least in political ideology, though not so much in economic once). while his main criticizor was the now ousted Bo (mostly criticizing that he leans too much to the general western thoughts).


Still, it's not like traditional Chinese thoughts are a singular blocks without many conflicting opinons anyway. the stereotypical late imperial Confucian is hardly the only thought process of pre-modern China, merely what the imperial dynastys took out of them for their own interest, for example Men Zhi in his work wrote that "The people is of the upmost importance, followed by society, with the rulers being the most unimportant." (a sentence that got banned in the Ming dynasty heh)