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Thread: A neat take on the Crusades

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    A neat take on the Crusades

    A neat take on the Crusades

    Basically the author says that the "barbarians" on the edges of Christian Europe and Muslim Arabia/Southwest Asia mutually benefited from the Crusades by allowing them into the mainstreams of their societies.

    On July 15, 1099 — 915 years ago to the day —Jerusalem fell to the knights of the First Crusade, launching a powerful metaphor for the apparently implacable civilizational conflict between Islam and Christianity.
    For the better part of a millennium after they ended, no one in either Western Europe or the Middle East cared much about the Crusades. The Christian world was more wrapped up in its Greek and Roman past, and when Muslim thinkers considered foreign invaders, they were more likely to remember the trauma of the Mongols. Things started to change with the rise of European nationalism in the 19th century, when patriotic historians rediscovered the Crusades as heroic examples of French, British or German chivalry and martial valor. This fascination famously flourished in World War I, when medieval legend offered a romantic alternative to the grim war in the trenches and early aviators became knights of the air with crosses emblazoned on their planes. Maybe it helped that the Crusades were among the few times English and French armies fought with and not against each other.
    An even greater irony goes back a thousand years to the Crusades themselves. The main protagonists on both sides of this archetypal religious war were barbarians from the edges of the Christian and Muslim worlds, respectively, who belatedly embraced their faiths with excessive zeal in order to fit into the civilizations they had only recently conquered. Seen as a conflict between Seljuqs and Normans rather than Muslims and Christians, the Crusades become a much more versatile parable for our era.
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    Green Arrow (07-17-2014),PolWatch (07-16-2014)

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    The Crusades are fascinating, but they strengthened and solidified the Catholic church's power, which in turn led to basically the complete Christianization of Scandinavia. So I'm naturally opposed.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

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    nathanbforrest45's Avatar Banned
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    Of course you are

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    Of course you are
    Anything of substance to add, chief?
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

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    I've been trying to do more reading on conflicts in the Middle East including the Crusades. I was surprised to find that Richard the Lion Heart killed over 2,600 Muslim prisoners in a dispute over ransom. More detail: http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/lionheart.htm

    Although France & England did develop a partnership of sorts, it didn't work well. Phillip Carpet left Richard Lion Heart before they even reached Jerusalem. Some French troops stayed, but Carpet was unhappy with them as he viewed it as a betrayal of him & France.
    Last edited by PolWatch; 07-31-2014 at 11:01 PM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    The Crusades are fascinating, but they strengthened and solidified the Catholic church's power, which in turn led to basically the complete Christianization of Scandinavia. So I'm naturally opposed.
    Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrose View Post
    Why?
    Because it strengthened the Catholic Church's power and aided in the Christianization of pagan Scandinavia.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolWatch View Post
    I've been trying to do more reading on conflicts in the Middle East including the Crusades. I was surprised to find that Richard the Lion Heart killed over 2,600 Muslim prisoners in a dispute over ransom. More detail: http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/lionheart.htm

    Although France & England did develop a partnership of sorts, it didn't work well. Phillip Carpet left Richard Lion Heart before they even reached Jerusalem. Some French troops stayed, but Carpet was unhappy with them as he viewed it as a betrayal of him & France.
    At times during the years that the Christians had Crusader Kingdoms in the Holy Lands, Christian armies would link up with Muslim armies to attack other Christians and vice versa.
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