What would our economy and way of life look like without megacorps?

[Chris]

Anything that gets too big and powerful goes rogue. Commerce, government, and religion have been demonstrating this since recorded history.

But none become so powerful without government. All power comes from society. Some is given up to government to protect the rest as is our right. But government colludes with business and unions and religions and other special interests to take more power. If corporations etc could not rely on government for political means to wealth but had to rely on economic means they would have to produce what people value.

"There are two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires. These are work and robbery, one’s own labor and the forcible appropriation of the labor of others. Robbery! Forcible appropriation! ...I propose in the following discussion to call one’s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one’s own labor for the labor of others, the “economic means” for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the “political means.”"

Franz Oppenheimer, 1914, The State

[Polecat]

But none become so powerful without government. All power comes from society. Some is given up to government to protect the rest as is our right. But government colludes with business and unions and religions and other special interests to take more power. If corporations etc could not rely on government for political means to wealth but had to rely on economic means they would have to produce what people value.

"There are two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires. These are work and robbery, one’s own labor and the forcible appropriation of the labor of others. Robbery! Forcible appropriation! ...I propose in the following discussion to call one’s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one’s own labor for the labor of others, the “economic means” for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the “political means.”"

Franz Oppenheimer, 1914, The State

I can't accept his principles due to the historic fact that in the 1800s our government was bought by the likes of Carnage, J.P. Morgan, Getty, Vanderbilt, etc. Europe was owned by the Rothschild family. You want to make the hair on the back of your neck stand up read up on this family and their American kin.

[Chris]

I can't accept his principles due to the historic fact that in the 1800s our government was bought by the likes of Carnage, J.P. Morgan, Getty, Vanderbilt, etc. Europe was owned by the Rothschild family. You want to make the hair on the back of your neck stand up read up on this family and their American kin.

In the 1800s the likes of those didn't have to buy government, government went to them for favors. Then came the 16th amendment and turned it around. Regardless, they collude together to our detriment.

[Mac-7]

In the 1800s the likes of those didn't have to buy government, government went to them for favors. Then came the 16th amendment and turned it around. Regardless, they collude together to our detriment.

Who should government consult with if not the best informed business leaders?

Commerce is the life blood of our economy and the nation.

the idea that bureaucrats in Washington have ultimate knowledge of everything and should just tell business leaders how to run their businesses is really silly.

one reason the old Soviet Union failed is because government pinheads tried to run the nation from Moscow - I.e. From the top down instead of from the bottom up ax we do here in America.

[Chris]

Who should government consult with if not the best informed business leaders?

Commerce is the life blood of our economy and the nation.

the idea that bureaucrats in Washington have ultimate knowledge of everything and should just tell business leaders how to run their businesses is really silly.

one reason the old Soviet Union failed is because government pinheads tried to run the nation from Moscow - I.e. From the top down instead of from the bottom up ax we do here in America.

We were discussing corruption, cronyism, the collusion of government and business. Other than regulation commerce among states, the federal government has no business meddling in business.

Given that running a business and a government are two different things entirely, why would there be any need for consultation?

The Soviet Union failed because Socialism/Communism cannot solve the economic calculation and coordination problems.

[lynn]

Simple solution to breaking the bond between corporations and government is to eliminate them from paying taxes.

[Mac-7]

We were discussing corruption, cronyism, the collusion of government and business. Other than regulation commerce among states, the federal government has no business meddling in business.

Given that running a business and a government are two different things entirely, why would there be any need for consultation?

The Soviet Union failed because Socialism/Communism cannot solve the economic calculation and coordination problems.

Other than regulation commerce among states, the federal government has no business meddling in business.

the reality is that government does meddle in business.

for business to sit around and passively wait for the next uninformed government mandate to arrive on their doorstep would be insane.

[Mac-7]

Simple solution to breaking the bond between corporations and government is to eliminate them from paying taxes.

that would help.

but government micromanages private business in many other ways also.

[Chris]

Simple solution to breaking the bond between corporations and government is to eliminate them from paying taxes.

It would help.

Another solution would be to regulate government from providing rent seeking opportunities. As long as political means to wealth are provided by government, people will rent seek it.

[Chris]

the reality is that government does meddle in business.

for business to sit around and passively wait for the next uninformed government mandate to arrive on their doorstep would be insane.

Politics is about what ought to be. Granted, you need to start with reality to get there, but reality ought not be the conclusion.

Business shouldn't have to wait on government.