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Thread: Catalonia defies Spain

  1. #11
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    Catalonia claims it will declare independence next week. Some see a Spanish civil war coming.

    This is a major crisis for the EU. But, the EU is not saying much.

    The EU’s budget commissioner has warned of the risk of “civil war” in Catalonia, as fears grew over a looming independence declaration and major banks prepared to relocate their headquarters.

    As another day passed with no sign of dialogue and pro-independence parties pushed for the declaration of a Catalan Republic as early as Monday, Gunther Oettinger, the budget commissioner, urged the two sides to talk.


    "The situation is very, very disturbing. A civil war is planned in the middle of Europe," Mr Oettinger said in Munich.
    More regions in EU seek independence

    We may see serious conflict in Europe again. Nationalism is not giving up to globalism.

    Catalonia, which has threatened to declare independence from Spain, is only one of several regions in the European Union demanding more autonomy or even independence.

    Here is a rundown of some of the others.


    - Scotland, Britain -

    - Flanders, Belgium -

    - Basques, Spain -

    - New Caledonia, France -

    - Corsica, France -

    - Faroe Islands, Denmark -

    - Lombardy and Veneto, Italy -
    Alea iacta est

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    It's nothing to do with the EU. it's Catalan/Spanish nationalism doing it's worst on both sides.
    They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance

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    They held off a declaration of independence.

    In a long-awaited speech, Catalan regional president Carles Puigdemont affirmed on Tuesday the right of Catalonia to be an independent country. But he notably stopped short of declaring the region an independent polity, calling for further dialogue with the Spanish government.

    By suspending the secession process, Puigdemont signaled an overture to critics and observers in Spain and across the European Union who feared the rise of separatism in the increasingly embattled 28-state bloc. He said that Catalonia’s conflict with Spain could be resolved in a rational way and suggested exploring international mediation as a possible solution.

    Probably because a lot of Catalonia's don't want to break from Spain.

    But just out of view of the camera lenses was the majority of Spanish citizens in this stylish, peaceful and prosperous region in the heart of Europe — those who did not vote in the disputed referendum for an independent Catalonia.

    At least 6 in 10 registered voters stayed home, suggesting deep division and opposition to the split with Spain sought by the separatists. A protest march in favor of Spanish unity brought hundreds of thousands onto the streets of Barcelona on Sunday.


    Who are they? What do they want?


    Many here are now calling themselves “the silent majority.”
    Alea iacta est

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    Spain threatens to take over Catalonia’s government as constitutional crisis looms

    Catalonia had a lot of autonomy. Now it may have none.

    Spain’s central government announced Thursday it would quickly move to take control of the autonomous Catalonia and restore “constitutional order” after the region’s president refused to back away from a push for independence.

    Facing a deadline imposed by Spain’s central government to answer the question whether Catalonia was declaring independence or not, the regional president replied Thursday that Madrid should stop threatening to seize control of the autonomous region but instead agree to dialogue.


    Catalonia’s president Carles Puigdemont answered Spain’s demand for clarity by sending a second letter to Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, stating that Catalonia’s suspension of its declaration of independence remains in force.


    But Puigdemont then added a threat of his own: if Madrid did not agree to talks, and continued its “repression” of the region, then the Catalan parliament would meet to vote on a formal declaration of independence.


    The Catalan government’s decision to effectively decline to respond to Madrid’s ultimatum brings Spain to the brink of a constitutional crisis.
    Alea iacta est

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    RollingWave (10-19-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    There's several directions this could go and none of it is good.

    1. The worst outcome: Catalonia destablize and goes oldschool Basque on Spain (i.e car bombs going off in Barcelona and Madrid beccome common and an insurgency of some scale starts ) this would be a disaster of epic proportion though less likely given that this is a rather affluent region we're talking about and rich dudes don't become suicide bombers.

    2. Endless massive protest and political chaos paralyze an already weak and ineffectual government in general and totally tank the economy : fairly likely outcome and not mutually excluding from the other possibilities.

    3. Autonomy goes away , but the pro-independence politicians will win votes for perpetuity : this is the ugly truth of all this, the ass holes at the heart of theses movement 's objective is to win power, it could very well end up that they get their wish at the expensive of all of Spain. hence my most serious objection of how modern democracy works, aka there's huge incentives for politicians in general to sacrifice the greater good for personal gains and it's shown to work quite often.

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    Catalonia declared independence- the first for the EU.

    Catalonia declared itself an independent republic on Friday. But nobody is sure how long it will last.

    Within hours of Catalonia’s emotional vote, Spain’s prime minister announced he would dismantle the Catalan government, suspend its ministers, dissolve its upstart parliament, take over the regional police and call home any Catalan diplomats abroad.


    The orders were effective immediately. In a Europe where change once took place at a glacial pace, this was the latest surprise in a continent rocked by division and upset, populism and nationalism.
    Spain takes away Catalonian autonomy and takes over the police force. Military force is possible.

    Spain's Senate gives unprecedented powers to central government to take over Catalonia after region declares independence

    The imposition of direct rule on the breakaway region marks a sharp escalation in the constitutional crisis. The central government in Madrid can now move swiftly to remove the Catalan president, suspend his ministers and assume authority over the region’s public media, police and finances.
    Alea iacta est

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    And the State department immediately announce they support Madrid.

    This will end pretty badly. and have pretty ugly ripple effects across the world.

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  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    And the State department immediately announce they support Madrid.

    This will end pretty badly. and have pretty ugly ripple effects across the world.
    I think that you are right.
    Alea iacta est

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    I would expect....that those supporting Kurdish 'nationalism' would also be supporting Catalonia in it's 'rightful' move towards 'independence?'

    No?

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    90% of the voters voted FOR independence and there is definitely a distinct history to Catalonia. I'm just saying.

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