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Thread: Gamergate?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    When you're a girl trying to get into this community, subjects like these impose themselves upon you when you realize that most people in "your community" assume that you suck and want to be a supporting character and coddle you for sexual favors because members of your sex are that rare a sight in the community. That's right, there are implicit gender roles in online gaming communities that are much like the ones in the real world, and, just as in the real world, when you defy them, you get in trouble. That's because the overwhelming majority of game-makers are male and they basically make games for other men, replete with all manner of implicit prejudices against 'the others' that their consumers in turn adopt or learn to shut up about (because
    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    here's what happens when you try to talk about these things in a gaming web community). That's been my experience, and it's nothing new, folks. And it used to be worse back in the pre-Internet days when the industry was in more or less total control of the gaming world. It's kind of a First World problem (as yet anyway), but it's annoying nonetheless. That's kinda why I tend to prefer playing solo, in fact, or at least one of the reasons. Not so much judgment when you're by yourself.
    Females are victims.

    /Edit: It's funny because everyday men are manipulated into giving money and other material possessions to women using their looks or sex or whatever.
    Last edited by GrassrootsConservative; 11-29-2014 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #12
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    Paperback Writer wrote:
    Every RPG game allows for female lead characters, female characters, etc. @IMPress Polly of the modern games which do you feel still don't allow for women?
    That's a bald-faced lie. Only 4% of all modern video games have a female lead character (a decline from 7% in the late 1990s and more than that in the early-to-mid 2000s) and only a minority even afford the options you describe.

    Traditionally, video game RPGs have either not afforded the player a choice of characters at all (which, incidentally, isn't always a bad thing!) or have afforded girls the option only of choosing healer characters, and the corresponding prejudices survive today, even in communities corresponding to games that are no longer structurally like that, because most of the people there grew up playing those older games.

    Try joining a Call of Duty community as a girl or playing World of Warcraft for a while. These communities are typical examples that are both less than 15% female here in an America wherein 48% of all gamers (defined here as people who play at least an hour of video games a week) are female. You'll find that your play experience will differ a lot if you choose a female avatar. In some ways it will actually be easier precisely BECAUSE everyone thinks you suck and wants sexual favors from you! But you'll probably get annoyed by it after a while and perhaps wish things were different. You might kinda wish there were more girls there; someone who might understand you a little better. But alas, it's not a very girl-friendly atmosphere. And good luck finding a female avatar who is fully clothed or actually played by a woman. (Most of the female avatars in online games are played by men who simply want to look at a scantly clothed girl character all day.)

    Not that these are deep, abiding oppressions, but they do affect the way you think about yourself over time, with enough exposure.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 11-29-2014 at 10:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    That's a bald-faced lie. Only 4% of all modern video games have a female lead character and only a minority even afford the options you describe.

    Traditionally, video game RPGs have either not afforded the player a choice of characters at all (which, incidentally, isn't always a bad thing!) or have afforded girls the option only of choosing healer characters, and the corresponding prejudices survive today, even in communities corresponding to games that are no longer structurally like that, because most of the people there grew up playing those older games. Try joining a Call of Duty community as a girl or playing World of Warcraft for a while. These communities are typical examples that are both less than 15% female here in an America wherein 48% of all gamers (defined here as people who play at least an hour of video games a week) are female. You'll find that your play experience will differ a lot if you choose a female avatar. In some ways it will actually be easier precisely BECAUSE everyone thinks you suck and wants sexual favors from you! But you'll probably get annoyed by it after a while and perhaps wish things were different. And good luck finding a female avatar who is fully clothed or actually played by a woman. (Most of the female avatars in online games are played by men who simply want to look at a scantly clothed girl character all day.)

    Not that these are deep, abiding oppressions, but they do affect the way you think about yourself over time, with enough exposure.
    If that's the case then females need to make more RPGs. Problem solved. I don't mean to be dismissive but males cater to males. Does that surprise anyone?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Mister D wrote:
    If that's the case then females need to make more RPGs. Problem solved. I don't mean to be dismissive but males cater to males. Does that surprise anyone?
    I agree, and women making more games is precisely a phenomenon we're seeing happen in today's Internet era, which makes me optimistic about the future. Watch in particular for games made by women in the indie scene (especially independent online downloadables) because that's where they thrive. (Aspiring female game designers simply don't tend to get far in the industry proper where the class ceiling is heavily reinforced, so, as in the world of film, they have to go the indie route if they ever really want to get anywhere.) The Internet has made the production of indie games much cheaper and more practical than it used to be, so you're going to see more of that in the future at the industry's expense.

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    I asked which RPG games (modern) don't allow for female characters, not which games or how many players are females. Call of Duty now allows for females in its games, even though it's entirely unrealistic.

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    Can you modernize Mechwarrior and make it work with Windows 7 please?
    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I agree, and women making more games is precisely a phenomenon we're seeing happen in today's Internet era, which makes me optimistic about the future. Watch in particular for games made by women in the indie scene (especially independent online downloadables) because that's where they thrive. (Aspiring female game designers simply don't tend to get far in the industry proper where the class ceiling is heavily reinforced, so, as in the world of film, they have to go the indie route if they ever really want to get anywhere.) The Internet has made the production of indie games much cheaper and more practical than it used to be, so you're going to see more of that in the future at the industry's expense.
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    Me personally? Nope. I know nothing about how to make video games; I just know how to play them. But I have no doubt there you can Google something like "Mechwarrior Windows 7" and find what you're looking for, Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    That's a bald-faced lie. Only 4% of all modern video games have a female lead character (a decline from 7% in the late 1990s and more than that in the early-to-mid 2000s) and only a minority even afford the options you describe.

    Traditionally, video game RPGs have either not afforded the player a choice of characters at all (which, incidentally, isn't always a bad thing!) or have afforded girls the option only of choosing healer characters, and the corresponding prejudices survive today, even in communities corresponding to games that are no longer structurally like that, because most of the people there grew up playing those older games.

    Try joining a Call of Duty community as a girl or playing World of Warcraft for a while. These communities are typical examples that are both less than 15% female here in an America wherein 48% of all gamers (defined here as people who play at least an hour of video games a week) are female. You'll find that your play experience will differ a lot if you choose a female avatar. In some ways it will actually be easier precisely BECAUSE everyone thinks you suck and wants sexual favors from you! But you'll probably get annoyed by it after a while and perhaps wish things were different. You might kinda wish there were more girls there; someone who might understand you a little better. But alas, it's not a very girl-friendly atmosphere. And good luck finding a female avatar who is fully clothed or actually played by a woman. (Most of the female avatars in online games are played by men who simply want to look at a scantly clothed girl character all day.)

    Not that these are deep, abiding oppressions, but they do affect the way you think about yourself over time, with enough exposure.
    I agreed with your point right up until you mentioned World of Warcraft. As an avid WoW player, I agree that it's not overtly friendly toward female players, but it's certainly not as bad as it used to be. A player mentioning that theyvwere female used to be responded to with, "Girls don't play WoW." Nowadays, it's a little more accepted. Of course, server choice and faction also plays a big part in that.

    None of that affects the fact that you CAN play a female character, and your female character does not have to run around scantily clad. My Alliance Paladin is a Draenei female, and her armor is rather bulky and not in any way revealing. WoW is also rather progressive with female NPCs, as there are female racial leaders (Tyrande Whisperwind of the Night Elves, Sylvanas Windrunner of the Forsaken, Moira Thaurissan of the Dwarf Council), as well as female leaders of powerful organizations and high-profile military leaders of the Alliance and Horde. Jaina Proudmoore, leader of the mage guild, the Kirin Tor, is one of those.

    With the start of the new expansion, Warlords of Draenor, the game has gotten even more female-friendly. If you made a female character and levelled her to 90, starting Warlords content would right off the bat make you the military commander of your entire faction's war effort against the warlords of Draenor. You are given soldiers and a garrison as a foothold on the savage world of Draenor, and all your followers and soldiers refer to you as "commander." When you get your garrison to rank 3, a cinematic shows the expansion of your garrison and your faction leader calls you "General." Additionally, you encounter two orcs in particular, Draka and Aggra. Draka is the wife of Durotan, Chieftain of the Frostwolf Clan. Aggra is the wife of Thrall, orc Shaman and former Warchief of the Horde. Neither Draka nor Aggra are beholden to their husbands and have just as much a leadership role in their clans and military ventures as the males.
    "A mature person is one who does not think only in absolutes, who is able to be objective even when deeply stirred emotionally, who has learned that there is both good and bad in all people and all things, and who walks humbly and deals charitably with the circumstances of life, knowing that in this world no one is all-knowing and therefore all of us need both love and charity."
    - Eleanor Roosevelt (1884-1962), American social activist and First Lady of the United States

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    Very helpful post! I was mostly going on the basis of testimonials and quotations from actual player debates on WoW, some of which were linked to in my post on page 1. (And a certain popularized scene from the game that I saw a long time ago that I felt communicated to me in 20 seconds essentially all I needed to know about where I would stand in the WoW community. )

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Me personally? Nope. I know nothing about how to make video games; I just know how to play them. But I have no doubt there you can Google something like "Mechwarrior Windows 7" and find what you're looking for, Peter.
    So far I only see the online version. Not for me. But I will keep looking.
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