Today's Religion Topic: Mormonism

[Alyosha]

Meh. Colleges advertise too. People choose whether to study or not and pay tuition.

Difference is that you won't get booted out for not paying tithing. Try that at a university.

My sister in law was given serious $#@! about tithing, but that's a different story. This is still not my point.


I'm not speaking of secrets of the priesthood, but basic history and facts that are unappealing. It would be like me trying to cover up or make the Spanish Inquisition look less bad.

Don't rewrite, don't obscure, hit the past head on.

It isn't prerequisite knowledge I am speaking of. The story of the plates is not like learning an algorithm. It's just something that people poke holes in so it's shoved to the back of the bus until such time as people are already hooked and ready to roll.


I don't like that.

How is it shoved to the back of the bus?

Because that whole origin narrative has both been cleaned up and given a stock answer when people question how no one saw the plates and when questioned and asked to recite it again word for word, Joseph Smith weaseled out of it with another excuse on how...meh...I don't care what you believe or why. This is unproductive as Mormons are incapable of exegesis without hurt feelings or stock response and I don't want to hurt your wife's feelings.

I'll exit the thread.

[McCool]

No, you don't teach the gospel until later. You're trying to gain a convert.

Would you buy a car without driving it, knowing its history? What if the sales person purposefully obscured it?

How would you have the missionaries make their initial presentation?

[Cthulhu]

@Alyosha

Do as you will. But that is kind of a wiener response.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Mister D]

I generally avoid sectarian disputes.

[Cthulhu]

I generally avoid sectarian disputes.

A practice I am considering adopting.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Alyosha]

@Alyosha

Do as you will. But that is kind of a wiener response.

If it were only you and McCollum posting I would have no issue, but your wife is lovely and sensitive. Speaking of someone's religion is like speaking of their children. I know when to be graceful.

[Cthulhu]

If it were only you and McCollum posting I would have no issue, but your wife is lovely and sensitive. Speaking of someone's religion is like speaking of their children. I know when to be graceful.

Eh. I like you. However I'm slightly vexed at you presently. So I will step out of this before I get ugly and stupid. I'll get over it, I'm to lazy to hold a grudge. And it was likely something unintentional in the first place.

No need for that any time, but especially on the Sabbath.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Alyosha]

Eh. I like you. However I'm slightly vexed at you presently. So I will step out of this before I get ugly and stupid. I'll get over it, I'm to lazy to hold a grudge. And it was likely something unintentional in the first place.

No need for that any time, but especially on the Sabbath.

Grudges have yet to do anything compelling for me but waste energy. I don't think there is a point to religious threads.

[iustitia]

Not to ruffle any feathers, but doesn't the Kinderhook plate hoax prove Smith was at worst fraud and at best delusional or a fibber? I have my own disagreements about LDS/Mormonism regarding doctrine, however historically speaking I would like to hear opinions about the man that was Joseph Smith. I believe that intentions of a movement's founder relevant to any movement's legitimacy.

[Dark Mistress]

Not to ruffle any feathers, but doesn't the Kinderhook plate hoax prove Smith was at worst fraud and at best delusional or a fibber? I have my own disagreements about LDS/Mormonism regarding doctrine, however historically speaking I would like to hear opinions about the man that was Joseph Smith. I believe that intentions of a movement's founder relevant to any movement's legitimacy.

What I find interesting about the Kinderhook plate "hoax" is that they didn't even come forward (those who crafted the plates) about the plates being "fake" until a long while after all the speculation and news articles circulated during that time. Actually, if research serves me correct they didn't even come forward until after the death of Joseph Smith. Why didn't they prove Joseph Smith wrong earlier?

No translation had come forth. A translation would have been needed to "prove" that Joseph Smith was a fraud. Take a look at the history of the translations of the Book of Mormon and the Bible. Those translations were done through much prayer and meditation. Manuscripts were brought forth and then published. There was not Kinderhook translation. There is however, a lot of hearsay.

New article stated that Joseph Smith had the plates yet we do not know his opinion of them. There was no "statement" given by Joseph Smith on the kinderhook plates. There was something written by William Clayton secretary of the church at the time later compiled in the History of the Church.

Science have proven the plates to fake. I do not dispute that, I do however dispute that Joseph Smith is a fraud. Just as there may be evidence to prove fraudulence there is evidence to the contrary however I will try and keep this post short.

My faith does not waver on these accusations because I do have a testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It was said his name would be known for good and evil throughout the world. Those intent to prove any individuals fraudulence usually can acquire and formulate data to that extent.

I have researched this topic a great deal on my own. I don't post this in ignorance. I do really try to do my homework before I post on any topic in this forum. I appreciate everyone's respect and civility on this thread (with the exception of a few comments above by my husband-he got a shaming from me).

I am intent to see the good and truth in every faith and religion. That is how I roll. I thoroughly enjoyed learning about Paganism in @Green Arrow s thread. I have said it before I love the study of religion. It's why I took Religion Around the World and Intro to Islam in college. I had almost switched my major over to Middle Eastern studies/Arabic I was so fascinated by Islam.

Thank you to all who have contributed.