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Thread: Seal hunting: Adelaide vs. Chloe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    350,000.
    what I saw on the government's website it said that they raised the quote to 400,000 for the 2014 hunt. The link is in the paragraph below.

    How can they kill primarily for the pelt when there is literally only one company willing to purchase them? The industry is now mainly based on selling meat and oil. Another reason pelts are not popular is because they aren't allowed to kill whitecoats. The entire hunt is monitored incredibly closely by the government on land, air and boat to ensure that whitecoats are not harmed, that sealers use the proper technique to humanely kill the seals, and to ensure that only as many as is permitted are killed.
    Based on this government website it looks like they are being purposefully vague when it comes to the fur trade, and it even states that the government is committed to developing new markets. One company can't be the only producer of all of those products the seal pelt can create. Sealing in Canada - Frequently Asked Questions


    Omega 3 is mainly available in meat. Fake alternatives like supplements are not the same - so yes, it is important that there is fresh seafood and other forms of animal products.
    Supplements are adequate enough as a replacement for meats when it comes to omega 3's, and there are other foods that are higher in omega 3s that do not come from animals. They should invest more in those more humane foods that do not require clubbing or licenses to kill in my opinion.


    Do you know that fish are becoming more endangered every year because of seals? That seals consume so much that large populations in the Gulf of St Lawrence are literally disappearing? The seal is the apex predator in those waters that, if allowed to just go on its way, will wipe out species and make fishing harder than it already is, possibly impossible. Without the commercial hunt the ecosystem would be terribly out of sorts and fish stocks would plummet further. Either the government is going to cull the seal population or they'll be hunted and actually used for a purpose. And again, people rely on sealing to stay alive, housed, so forth. Fishing and sealing are a vital industry to the east coast where unemployment is significant.
    Seals are not the main reason fish are becoming more scarce, it's human interaction through over-fishing, and if there are studies showing otherwise then it's probably being funded and edited by the government that supports it or the industry that is involved in it. I view the Canadian government when it comes to the seal hunt in the same light that I view the Japanese government in the whale hunt. Both have stellar reputations when it comes to many things but have disgusting practices that they cling to for the sake of profit. These fisherman's livelihoods do not and should not depend on the slaughter of 350,000 seals, and the fact that they claim it does and that the government acknowledges that they do shows how it's not about conservation but about commercial profit in my opinion.
    Last edited by Chloe; 10-25-2014 at 08:30 AM.
    Alaska Born ~ Oregon Grown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    I'm for it because I know what it is and what the purpose of it is. My family, a part of it, landed in Newfoundland and Labrador. The poverty and unemployment is horrible. The seals, like any other animal, are hunted to supply the people, (with food, with money). There is an abundance of them, so much so they threaten other species. There is no predator other than the humans who can curb the population growth. It's done humanely - more so than in other industries involving animals for food - which has been established by internal and international veterinarians. There is even talk of getting certifications via training in order to hunt to reassure those who don't seem to understand.
    It just sounds to me like an industry that has been artificially created over the centuries. For centuries these hunts have taken place, well before regulations even really started happening, and that includes fishing in general, and over the years the actions of over-fishing and putting so much demand on an ecosystem it now leaves the remaining large species in that area as one of the last big population species in those waters. The population is allowed to get to a certain point each year by the government to not only ensure that there will be a hunt each year but to also ensure that the habitat never truly recovers. They say that they use science based research to determine the amount of seals that will be slaughtered but funny enough it always guarantees the next year's hunt. It's a business, plain and simple, and for me, killing for profit is not a humane business.

    I also believe most people have a problem with it because they believe activist propaganda. Such as that whitecoats are actively hunted. This is false. But they're cute animals when they haven't molted so it's awesome for those wanting to skew the facts.
    They don't need to be "actively" hunted to still be hunted. People kill wildlife daily that they aren't supposed to kill simply because the game warden isn't around, even so-called honest hunters. Whether it's one additional deer or a fish two inches too small, it happens all the time, and so to say that there is no active hunting of a whitecoat seal is being purposefully blind to the reality in my opinion. If there are 350,000 seals killed that are on the kill list I can assure you that there were hundreds to maybe even 1000+ killed that should not have been killed. The only way to ensure that doesn't happen to is not participate in commercial sealing at all and then vigorously prosecute violators.
    Last edited by Chloe; 10-25-2014 at 08:14 AM.
    Alaska Born ~ Oregon Grown

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    I'm not going to post the pictures of the bodies that have been skinned and left to rot, but at least this shows how truly helpless these seals are at the time of their death. The video also shows actual footage. The effort, money, fuel costs, and logistics involved to even produce and participate in these hunts makes me question the actual need as well from these commercial fishermen. It seems just as antiquated as the whale hunt to me yet the amount of money and effort invested into polishing up the inhumanity of it and regulating it for the sake of industry makes me question the sincerity and agenda of the people who actively promote it (i.e. government and business leaders)

    seals9.jpg

    Attachment 9354

    tumblr_ld8ekpnZgp1qcc5jc.jpg

    Canadian-Seal-hunt-001.jpg

    Last edited by Chloe; 10-25-2014 at 08:35 AM.
    Alaska Born ~ Oregon Grown

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    @Adelaide i'm honestly trying not to get worked up. If I am just say so and i'll try to reset.
    Alaska Born ~ Oregon Grown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
    what I saw on the government's website it said that they raised the quote to 400,000 for the 2014 hunt. The link is in the paragraph below.

    Based on this government website it looks like they are being purposefully vague when it comes to the fur trade, and it even states that the government is committed to developing new markets. One company can't be the only producer of all of those products the seal pelt can create. Sealing in Canada - Frequently Asked Questions

    Supplements are adequate enough as a replacement for meats when it comes to omega 3's, and there are other foods that are higher in omega 3s that do not come from animals. They should invest more in those more humane foods that do not require clubbing or licenses to kill in my opinion.

    Seals are not the main reason fish are becoming more scarce, it's human interaction through over-fishing, and if there are studies showing otherwise then it's probably being funded and edited by the government that supports it or the industry that is involved in it. I view the Canadian government when it comes to the seal hunt in the same light that I view the Japanese government in the whale hunt. Both have stellar reputations when it comes to many things but have disgusting practices that they cling to for the sake of profit. These fisherman's livelihoods do not and should not depend on the slaughter of 350,000 seals, and the fact that they claim it does and that the government acknowledges that they do shows how it's not about conservation but about commercial profit in my opinion.
    You're better off reading and getting statistics and information from Newfoundland and Labrador's Ministry of Fisheries and Aquaculture: http://www.fishaq.gov.nl.ca/sealing/index.html

    There is hardly a market for the fur because what people want are the whitecoats. Other pelts are less desirable, don't pay as much, and have fewer prospective buyers. It is not all about the fur of these animals.

    Read the information from the provincial site, particularly this. Yes, seals are a significan reason why fish are disappearing and left unchecked could completely ruin the ecosystem.

    What would you rather the fisherman who join the hunt do? What can you do or think of to provide up to 35% of their income? Again, it is not just aboriginals that depend on the seal hunt. In the case of aboriginals it is because they use the animal in many ways to sustain themselves. In the case of the fisherman, he does it to get money to sustain himself/his family. Maybe you don't understand just how harsh conditions are where these people live - the weather, the unemployment, the poverty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
    It just sounds to me like an industry that has been artificially created over the centuries. For centuries these hunts have taken place, well before regulations even really started happening, and that includes fishing in general, and over the years the actions of over-fishing and putting so much demand on an ecosystem it now leaves the remaining large species in that area as one of the last big population species in those waters. The population is allowed to get to a certain point each year by the government to not only ensure that there will be a hunt each year but to also ensure that the habitat never truly recovers. They say that they use science based research to determine the amount of seals that will be slaughtered but funny enough it always guarantees the next year's hunt. It's a business, plain and simple, and for me, killing for profit is not a humane business.

    They don't need to be "actively" hunted to still be hunted. People kill wildlife daily that they aren't supposed to kill simply because the game warden isn't around, even so-called honest hunters. Whether it's one additional deer or a fish two inches too small, it happens all the time, and so to say that there is no active hunting of a whitecoat seal is being purposefully blind to the reality in my opinion. If there are 350,000 seals killed that are on the kill list I can assure you that there were hundreds to maybe even 1000+ killed that should not have been killed. The only way to ensure that doesn't happen to is not participate in commercial sealing at all and then vigorously prosecute violators.
    You don't understand that the government and numerous watchdogs participate in the hunt to prevent whitecoats from being killed. It is not a long hunting season. They're monitored by land, air and boat and it isn't just the government - it's also activists and foreign officials ensuring we stick to our own regulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
    I'm not going to post the pictures of the bodies that have been skinned and left to rot, but at least this shows how truly helpless these seals are at the time of their death. The video also shows actual footage. The effort, money, fuel costs, and logistics involved to even produce and participate in these hunts makes me question the actual need as well from these commercial fishermen. It seems just as antiquated as the whale hunt to me yet the amount of money and effort invested into polishing up the inhumanity of it and regulating it for the sake of industry makes me question the sincerity and agenda of the people who actively promote it (i.e. government and business leaders)

    Attachment 9353

    Attachment 9354

    Attachment 9355

    Attachment 9356

    Here; watch a video not made by an activist and tell me how you expect these people to live without the seal hunt.


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    By the way, that video also explains the blood. It's part of humanely killing the seals. After you use a hakapik or a rifle you purposely slit an artery to ensure death is complete and quick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    You're better off reading and getting statistics and information from Newfoundland and Labrador's Ministry of Fisheries and Aquaculture: http://www.fishaq.gov.nl.ca/sealing/index.html

    There is hardly a market for the fur because what people want are the whitecoats. Other pelts are less desirable, don't pay as much, and have fewer prospective buyers. It is not all about the fur of these animals.

    Read the information from the provincial site, particularly this. Yes, seals are a significan reason why fish are disappearing and left unchecked could completely ruin the ecosystem.
    Not to dismiss the governmental links that you have provided but why would I take those as fact when it's the government itself that advocates for and defends the seal hunt? Just as you wouldn't trust an advocacy group's website why would I trust the government's "facts"? Would I trust the Japanese government's findings based on the "research" that they do in the southern ocean? The argument that seals are to blame for the lack of fish is like blaming Kodiak brown bears for any possible reduction of salmon in that part of Alaska. Human interaction is far more impactful and wide reaching. I'm not denying that seals don't eat a lot of fish, but what makes them the enemy just because they are reproducing? Our species can reproduce as much as we want and consume as much as we want but when things get tight we blame the most noticeable species nearby?

    What would you rather the fisherman who join the hunt do? What can you do or think of to provide up to 35% of their income? Again, it is not just aboriginals that depend on the seal hunt. In the case of aboriginals it is because they use the animal in many ways to sustain themselves. In the case of the fisherman, he does it to get money to sustain himself/his family. Maybe you don't understand just how harsh conditions are where these people live - the weather, the unemployment, the poverty?
    To be honest I'd rather the fisherman not join the hunt and consider other more legitimately humane ways of making extra money that doesn't involve mass slaughter. The argument that they are providing for their families doesn't really get a ton of sympathy from me since the same argument is used by others for so many other cruel things directed at animal species and ecosystems. "We must continue to drill for oil because it provides for my family. We must continue to frack because it provides for my family. We must continue to whale because it provides for my family. We must continue to use harmful chemicals because those profits from that industry provides for my family." At some point in time we need to stand up to things that harm others for profit, and that includes wildlife in my opinion. We can all do better with regards to that goal.
    Last edited by Chloe; 10-25-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    Here; watch a video not made by an activist and tell me how you expect these people to live without the seal hunt.

    I'd honestly rather them (humans) have to figure it out than to continue an annual mass slaughter. A slaughter that is centered around profit and not protection. If the fish population were abundant they'd still find a way to promote a seal hunt, probably making the case that with less seals it would yield even more catch which means more food and profit for people, but either way the seal is the enemy because if the fish population drops the seal would be blamed for that. It's never going to be because of years of irresponsible fishing and management by human beings.
    Alaska Born ~ Oregon Grown

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