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Thread: Seal hunting: Adelaide vs. Chloe

  1. #21
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    Chloe's Avatar Senior Member
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    @Adelaide I think after your next response it would probably be ok to open this up for everybody, unless you feel otherwise.
    Alaska Born ~ Oregon Grown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
    Not to dismiss the governmental links that you have provided but why would I take those as fact when it's the government itself that advocates for and defends the seal hunt? Just as you wouldn't trust an advocacy group's website why would I trust the government's "facts"? Would I trust the Japanese government's findings based on the "research" that they do in the southern ocean? The argument that seals are to blame for the lack of fish is like blaming Kodiak brown bears for any possible reduction of salmon in that part of Alaska. Human interaction is far more impactful and wide reaching. I'm not denying that seals don't eat a lot of fish, but what makes them the enemy just because they are reproducing? Our species can reproduce as much as we want and consume as much as we want but when things get tight we blame the most noticeable species nearby?

    To be honest I'd rather the fisherman not join the hunt and consider other more legitimately humane ways of making extra money that doesn't involve mass slaughter. The argument that they are providing for their families doesn't really get a ton of sympathy from me since the same argument is used by others for so many other cruel things directed at animal species and ecosystems. "We must continue to drill for oil because it provides for my family. We must continue to frack because it provides for my family. We must continue to whale because it provides for my family. We must continue to use harmful chemicals because those profits from that industry provides for my family." At some point in time we need to stand up to things that harm others for profit, and that includes wildlife in my opinion. We can all do better with regards to that goal.
    All hunting has a purpose and is usually more humane than how mass-produced animal products come about. Do you deny that? As a vegetarian I know you have a problem with all meat, but logically you must see that game meat and hunting are almost always more fair to the animal, healthier for all involved so long as there are regulations and rules in place to avoid over-hunting or hunting endangered species.

    My government has little reason to want to propagate about the seal hunt - it's hurt our talks with the EU for a trade agreement, among other things. I'm absolutely sure they would love to ban the seal hunt if it were so easy. But the government recognizes that the hunt is vital to communities where there is no growing season for crops, and incredibly dangerous weather conditions for humans nonetheless domesticated animals. My video showed one such community that relies on preserved salted fish for 9 months of a year before the seal hunt. Ice blocks their access to the mainland most of the year.

    Seals are not the "enemy" - they're a means of survival. They're respected as such and treated ethically through the training of sealers to make the kill quick and as painless as possible. I respect the people who hunt seals far more than I respect the people who own factory farms. The animal is what keeps people above water. It helps with unemployment. It takes more respect for an animal to kill it humanely than it does to order a big mac.

    You're comparing apples and oranges. People who live on the east coast in areas that are barren and fishing and hunting are what sustain them, it's not as though they can suddenly become bankers or lawyers or doctors. Their job is swimming around in the ocean and inlets. As much as it is tradition for the aboriginals, it is tradition for the Newfies and Quebecois, among others. Generations of seal hunters. Generations that all depended on the seal hunt to survive the brutal winters. Yes, it comes at the cost of harming an animal but again - what exactly do you expect them to do in that area of my country to make up for lost revenue/income? There isn't anything else. I guess they could try to sell snow and ice?

    Whaling is different as it's often with endangered species. Hunting sharks for the fins is different because you're taking the fin and throwing the rest back to rot. Sealing is a sustainable practice that is one of the only ways for many communities to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    All hunting has a purpose and is usually more humane than how mass-produced animal products come about. Do you deny that? As a vegetarian I know you have a problem with all meat, but logically you must see that game meat and hunting are almost always more fair to the animal, healthier for all involved so long as there are regulations and rules in place to avoid over-hunting or hunting endangered species.

    My government has little reason to want to propagate about the seal hunt - it's hurt our talks with the EU for a trade agreement, among other things. I'm absolutely sure they would love to ban the seal hunt if it were so easy. But the government recognizes that the hunt is vital to communities where there is no growing season for crops, and incredibly dangerous weather conditions for humans nonetheless domesticated animals. My video showed one such community that relies on preserved salted fish for 9 months of a year before the seal hunt. Ice blocks their access to the mainland most of the year.

    Seals are not the "enemy" - they're a means of survival. They're respected as such and treated ethically through the training of sealers to make the kill quick and as painless as possible. I respect the people who hunt seals far more than I respect the people who own factory farms. The animal is what keeps people above water. It helps with unemployment. It takes more respect for an animal to kill it humanely than it does to order a big mac.

    You're comparing apples and oranges. People who live on the east coast in areas that are barren and fishing and hunting are what sustain them, it's not as though they can suddenly become bankers or lawyers or doctors. Their job is swimming around in the ocean and inlets. As much as it is tradition for the aboriginals, it is tradition for the Newfies and Quebecois, among others. Generations of seal hunters. Generations that all depended on the seal hunt to survive the brutal winters. Yes, it comes at the cost of harming an animal but again - what exactly do you expect them to do in that area of my country to make up for lost revenue/income? There isn't anything else. I guess they could try to sell snow and ice?

    Whaling is different as it's often with endangered species. Hunting sharks for the fins is different because you're taking the fin and throwing the rest back to rot. Sealing is a sustainable practice that is one of the only ways for many communities to survive.
    I'd be lying if I said that a part of me wasn't wanting to agree with you in some respects on some of your points, but then at the same time there's a big part of me that will call myself a sell out if I do. I don't know.

    I understand that people need to survive, I do, but it's hard to get behind something that just seems so commercialized and traditional in spite of the percentage of people that are genuinely trying to survive. I think I could tolerate someone sincerely taking one of those lives in order to survive, but when it comes to doing it for money it just doesn't resonate with me. i'm sorry.
    Alaska Born ~ Oregon Grown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
    I'd honestly rather them (humans) have to figure it out than to continue an annual mass slaughter. A slaughter that is centered around profit and not protection. If the fish population were abundant they'd still find a way to promote a seal hunt, probably making the case that with less seals it would yield even more catch which means more food and profit for people, but either way the seal is the enemy because if the fish population drops the seal would be blamed for that. It's never going to be because of years of irresponsible fishing and management by human beings.
    You and I both agree on climate change, as far as I know. Seals had to have had a natural predator at some point that wasn't a human with a weapon, otherwise their population would not be now growing to the point of threatening fish species in specific areas. We're not going to suddenly reverse the changes in climate and ice sheets. It makes sense right now to hunt seals and keep the population controlled rather than just allow the government to cull. I'm sure that sealers themselves would happily create reasons why they should continue hunting, but the reality is the seals are actually harming the ecosystem along our coast and into the St. Lawrence. We may as well allow commercial sealing as it does serve a purpose and the people who do it have few, if any, alternative methods to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloe View Post
    I'd be lying if I said that a part of me wasn't wanting to agree with you in some respects on some of your points, but then at the same time there's a big part of me that will call myself a sell out if I do. I don't know.

    I understand that people need to survive, I do, but it's hard to get behind something that just seems so commercialized and traditional in spite of the percentage of people that are genuinely trying to survive. I think I could tolerate someone sincerely taking one of those lives in order to survive, but when it comes to doing it for money it just doesn't resonate with me. i'm sorry.
    I get that. Unfortunately survival is about money for humans. 35% of a fisherman's income in some areas is sealing. Removing that would be devastating to what are already the poorest and most unemployed population in Canada aside from the territories.

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    The debate is now open.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Adelaide For This Useful Post:

    Chloe (10-25-2014)

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    I am persuaded that the seal population is unsustainably large. The numbers must be kept in check, and humane hunting is the best way to do that. If the meat is not going to waste, I don't have a problem with it. We eat cows, pigs, chickens, and whatnot as well.

    And this is much much better than the common factory farming practices for obtaining food.

    I am less persuaded by this being a primary source of income for certain people. Canada is large and has plenty of space for migration if needed. As a wise, dead comic once said, if you live in a desert..., move.
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    Thank you both for some interesting information. While there are no seals to hunt in my area (the Gulf Coast) we have a similar situation with alligators. While gators are not as cute as seals, I don't think anyone wants to see them hunted to extinction (nearly the case in the past), but we also don't need to see them wipe out other wildlife. I have to agree with strictly controlled hunting in both cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolWatch View Post
    Thank you both for some interesting information. While there are no seals to hunt in my area (the Gulf Coast) we have a similar situation with alligators. While gators are not as cute as seals, I don't think anyone wants to see them hunted to extinction (nearly the case in the past), but we also don't need to see them wipe out other wildlife. I have to agree with strictly controlled hunting in both cases.
    Gators are more fun to hunt. They fight back.
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    Nature finds a way. Animals are controlled by predators directly above them in the food chain. If the large seal population cannot be killed by orcas, sharks, or polar bears then they will breed uncontrollably until nature creates a predator.

    As an aside, if I had to "go" I'd rather it be quick by gunshot than slow by being eaten alive by an orca.
    And if we should die tonight
    Then we should all die together
    Raise a glass of wine for the last time
    Calling out father, prepare as we will
    Watch the flames burn auburn on the mountain side
    Desolation comes upon the sky..

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