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Thread: Why is atheism so poorly represented in American politics?

  1. #231
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    Kizzume's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awryly View Post
    What do you mean by "secularism"?
    The push for secular values.
    Sorry--but I do not accept the idea that being intolerant of intolerance is THE SAME THING as being intolerant of anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awryly View Post
    So the Crusades, the Cathar rebellion, the Huguenot uprisings, the Wars of Religion, the English civil war - just to mention a few examples - had nothing to do with religion?

    You are relying on a single example (Stalin) to promote the idea that religions are less murderous. Of course, you could also add Hitler.

    But if the popes had had tanks and warplanes, I shudder to think how much more they could have achieved.
    I'm not saying any of those things have nothing to do with religion. What I'm arguing is that the religious beliefs of a given regime aren't a good predictor of the tendency toward violence. Violence usually has to do with power and other motives and religious belief, Atheism, Christianity or otherwise, tends to serve as a convenient excuse or justification.

    I use Stalin as a prominent example, but you could also use most of Communist eastern Europe. Hitler and Stalin weren't the only ones who killed off religious and ethnic minorities at their convenience. Actually, Around the time that Stalin fell ill, many soviet states began to purge Jews from the Communist party. I would recommned reading "Under a Cruel Star" by Heda Margolious Kovaly if you want to hear about a Czech Jew who survived the double threat of the secular Nazi and Communist Regimes.

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  4. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Except not to believe in "fairly tales". lol Check your boyfriends semen for lead. Sorry, you deserved it.
    If I was trying to get someone to believe something, you'd have a point. If I was trying to replace one belief with another, you'd have a point. Atheism is not like a religion, it doesn't have any dogma attached to it, it has no agenda--it simply means the lack of belief in a god. Some atheists have agendas, but that's on an individual basis. Most people are atheists about just about all gods, atheists just take it one more god further.
    Sorry--but I do not accept the idea that being intolerant of intolerance is THE SAME THING as being intolerant of anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
    Believing in a sky god that sits and judges everything we do is pretty much believing in fairy tales.
    Lead poisoning does that.
    Come sit down beside me I said to myself
    And although it doesn't make sense
    I held my own hand as a small sign of trust
    And together I sat on the fence


    Anon. Very anon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    I'm not saying any of those things have nothing to do with religion. What I'm arguing is that the religious beliefs of a given regime aren't a good predictor of the tendency toward violence. Violence usually has to do with power and other motives and religious belief, Atheism, Christianity or otherwise, tends to serve as a convenient excuse or justification.

    I use Stalin as a prominent example, but you could also use most of Communist eastern Europe. Hitler and Stalin weren't the only ones who killed off religious and ethnic minorities at their convenience. Actually, Around the time that Stalin fell ill, many soviet states began to purge Jews from the Communist party. I would recommned reading "Under a Cruel Star" by Heda Margolious Kovaly if you want to hear about a Czech Jew who survived the double threat of the secular Nazi and Communist Regimes.
    Sorry. All I see is that ideologies (religious or not, sincere or - as in Stalin's and Hitler's case - not) promote violence.

    The fact seems to be that religion has a more thorough record of promoting violence. And, in Muslim countries, some of which (like Nigeria and Lebanon) are also Christian, is still doing so.

    The blight is ideology, affected or real.
    Come sit down beside me I said to myself
    And although it doesn't make sense
    I held my own hand as a small sign of trust
    And together I sat on the fence


    Anon. Very anon.

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    But Hitler was an atheist. You can send a child to church but it doesn't mean he will believe. Did use the Church to his advantage tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awryly View Post
    Sorry. All I see is that ideologies (religious or not, sincere or - as in Stalin's and Hitler's case - not) promote violence.

    The fact seems to be that religion has a more thorough record of promoting violence. And, in Muslim countries, some of which (like Nigeria and Lebanon) are also Christian, is still doing so.

    The blight is ideology, affected or real.
    Then you are choosing to be ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
    The push for secular values.
    What do you regard as "secular values"?
    Come sit down beside me I said to myself
    And although it doesn't make sense
    I held my own hand as a small sign of trust
    And together I sat on the fence


    Anon. Very anon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Then you are choosing to be ignorant.

    How so? Because you have not made a case?
    Come sit down beside me I said to myself
    And although it doesn't make sense
    I held my own hand as a small sign of trust
    And together I sat on the fence


    Anon. Very anon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
    If I was trying to get someone to believe something, you'd have a point. If I was trying to replace one belief with another, you'd have a point. Atheism is not like a religion, it doesn't have any dogma attached to it, it has no agenda--it simply means the lack of belief in a god. Some atheists have agendas, but that's on an individual basis. Most people are atheists about just about all gods, atheists just take it one more god further.
    I have a point precisely because you are trying to convince me of something which you admit. You obviously have an agenda which again you are open about. The exact lead content of Mr. Right's semen is all that remains uncertain.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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