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Thread: Why is atheism so poorly represented in American politics?

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
    Tough then. I think equality is something to STRIVE for. Equality isn't possible to fully achieve, but to strive for it can do good things. It seems, to you, we shouldn't try to strive for equality, we should strive for inequality instead... and be satisfied with terrible things because after all, equality is impossible. And we should never set our goals higher than what is possible, we should aim low so we're not striving for the impossible.
    How does one strive for what does not exist? It's like ending your criticism of my faith by telling me you're striving for heaven! Incidentally, you are striving for heaven but we'll get to that later. Human beings are equal or they're not. What leads to you believe we are equal in value? That we all have inherent dignity that must be respected?

    Alleviating pain and misery has nothing to do with equality. One cannot reject equality and care for his fellow man.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
    "Oops, I better not do that, I might pay for it in the afterlife" is not much different than "I better not walk under that ladder, it's bad luck". It's superstition. I'm sorry you don't like to view your strongly held beliefs as superstition, but that's just the way it is.

    I accept that some of my beliefs are irrational. It is you who seems unwilling to accept that about yourself.
    Again, who thinks that way? That is the way you raise a child. It's obvious your religious teaching ended very early. I'm sorry, but you simply have't made a case. When you do I'll let you know if I'm upset by it.

    It's a shame that you think your reason plays no role in your beliefs.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
    Nah, not mad at all. I am 100% sure I am right.
    Wow, you're 100% sure eh? Not 99.99999999999999999999%, you really mean 100%? I've never met an atheist who is arrogant enough to think with 100% assurity that there is no god. 100%, really? Did you have some sort of life-changing out-of-body experience? I had one of those, and what I saw is what was the start of the decline of my own faith in Christianity, but if it had been something that confirmed my religious views, it would be pretty difficult to deny that faith. Do you "see ghosts"? I used to believe in ghosts, I still believe to some degree in reiki--it's irrational but I still believe it, I don't know whether I still believe in places/locations having positive or negative vibes--it's irrational but I still somewhat believe it, but I guess I can't imagine 100% believing in something as big as that--I question some regularly-accepted things on a normal basis, even if it's just for a tiny moment's time, so it's just very hard for me to imagine being so sure of something like that.
    Sorry--but I do not accept the idea that being intolerant of intolerance is THE SAME THING as being intolerant of anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Again, who thinks that way? That is the way you raise a child. It's obvious your religious teaching ended very early. I'm sorry, but you simply have't made a case. When you do I'll let you know if I'm upset by it.
    I don't know how to word it any differently than that. I like to look at the basic things that make people tick--the raw emotions of why they make decisions. Most of the time people don't think about the basic things that make them tick--when someone thinks something is wrong, they don't think about WHY they think it's wrong, they just automatically think it's wrong and therefore don't do it. With some things, if they question whether it's REALLY wrong or not, they'll still logically conclude that it would be a bad thing, and there are other things that if they question would NOT make sense to call it bad.
    It's a shame that you think your reason plays no role in your beliefs.
    I never said that it plays no role. I just wish you'd stop this cryptic stuff. I don't know what you expect me to answer. "What color is the sky? Yes or no!" is what this feels like.
    Sorry--but I do not accept the idea that being intolerant of intolerance is THE SAME THING as being intolerant of anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    How does one strive for what does not exist?
    Oh, so now you're saying that the concept of equality doesn't exist? It's a concept, an unachievable concept, but a concept nevertheless.
    It's like ending your criticism of my faith by telling me you're striving for heaven!
    Let me be clear--I'm not saying your faith is a bad thing, what I AM saying is that much of your belief is out of superstition. If it helps you in your life, hey, go for it.
    Incidentally, you are striving for heaven but we'll get to that later. Human beings are equal or they're not. What leads to you believe we are equal in value?
    If people aren't hurting anything and they're not forcing anyone to do anything, there's no reason why they shouldn't be equal to everyone else.
    That we all have inherent dignity that must be respected?
    Um, we're all "equal" until proven otherwise, and then we treat people according to their actions?
    Alleviating pain and misery has nothing to do with equality. One cannot reject equality and care for his fellow man.
    I don't know what you were responding to in these two sentences.
    Sorry--but I do not accept the idea that being intolerant of intolerance is THE SAME THING as being intolerant of anything else.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
    I don't know how to word it any differently than that. I like to look at the basic things that make people tick--the raw emotions of why they make decisions. Most of the time people don't think about the basic things that make them tick--when someone thinks something is wrong, they don't think about WHY they think it's wrong, they just automatically think it's wrong and therefore don't do it. With some things, if they question whether it's REALLY wrong or not, they'll still logically conclude that it would be a bad thing, and there are other things that if they question would NOT make sense to call it bad.
    Our sense of morality comes from a process of Christian socialization. That's true of us all regardless of our beliefs. We are products of a culture and that culture would still be Christian if everyone renounced their faith tomorrow. The past determines to a large degree how we think today. Anyway, I do what is right because it's right. Moreover, my belief that I am accountable for my actions extends logically from my belief in God.

    I never said that it plays no role. I just wish you'd stop this cryptic stuff. I don't know what you expect me to answer. "What color is the sky? Yes or no!" is what this feels like.
    If reason plays a role than it is not irrational.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
    Oh, so now you're saying that the concept of equality doesn't exist? It's a concept, an unachievable concept, but a concept nevertheless.
    So does the concept of God. Is that proof God exists?

    Let me be clear--I'm not saying your faith is a bad thing, what I AM saying is that much of your belief is out of superstition. If it helps you in your life, hey, go for it.
    Feel free to demonstrate it.

    If people aren't hurting anything and they're not forcing anyone to do anything, there's no reason why they shouldn't be equal to everyone else.
    It is not a question of what should be but of what is.
    Um, we're all "equal" until proven otherwise, and then we treat people according to their actions?
    Really? I could we are all unequal until proven otherwise. Why is equality the default?

    I don't know what you were responding to in these two sentences.
    This:

    and be satisfied with terrible things because after all, equality is impossible.
    Alleviating pain and misery has nothing to do with equality. One cannot reject equality and care for his fellow man.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  8. #428
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    bbl
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Our sense of morality comes from a process of Christian socialization. That's true of us all regardless of our beliefs. We are products of a culture and that culture would still be Christian if everyone renounced their faith tomorrow. The past determines to a large degree how we think today.
    Of course a country's past is going to affect the present. That should go without saying.
    Anyway, I do what is right because it's right. Moreover, my belief that I am accountable for my actions extends logically from my belief in God.
    It extends from your belief in God, but your belief in God isn't rational.
    If reason plays a role than it is not irrational.
    There are things that we can try to make sound reasonable in our minds that are not really rational, we do it all the time--usually they're little things that we never really discuss--like wanting to go extra fast in a section of road that is known as a speed trap--or making sure an item is placed in the middle of something even if there's no worry of it falling over--little things--obsessions, and we can try to make those obsessions sound reasonable and rational in our heads, but when we really break it down, the reasons are irrational. For an extreme example, look how mass murderers try to rationalize their actions.

    "A reason" does not automatically mean it's a *rational* reason.
    Sorry--but I do not accept the idea that being intolerant of intolerance is THE SAME THING as being intolerant of anything else.

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    Wow, you're 100% sure eh? Not 99.99999999999999999999%,
    No, 100%, nice try.

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