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Thread: Marines to consider lowering combat standards for women

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    Standards should not be lowered. While it is a small pool, there are some women who could pass the same standards as the men. Those that can't should not jeopardize others for the purposes of being politically correct. The military is not the place for gender norming.

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    Women not applying for Navy Seals or Green Berets...

    A Year In, No Female SEAL Applicants, Few for SpecOps
    Feb 15, 2017 | It has been more than 12 months since training pipelines for previously closed elite special operator jobs opened to women.
    A little more than 12 months after training pipelines for previously closed elite special operator jobs opened to women, the U.S. military has yet to see its first female Navy SEAL or Green Beret. The component commanders for each of the service special operations commands say they're ready to integrate female operators into their units, but it's not yet clear when they'll have the opportunity to do so. The Navy is closely monitoring the interest of female applicants. In fact, Naval Special Warfare Command is eyeing one Reserve Officer Training Corps member who's interested in the SEALs, and another woman who has yet to enter the service but has expressed interest in becoming a special warfare combatant craft crewman, a community even smaller than the SEALs with a training pipeline nearly as rigorous.

    But it will likely be years until the Navy has a woman in one of these elite units. Rear Adm. Tim Szymanski, head of Naval Special Warfare Command, which includes the elite SEALs and other Navy special operations units, noted that the enlisted training pipeline for SEALs is two-and-a-half years from start to end, meaning a female applicant who began the process now wouldn't join a team until nearly 2020. And that assumes that she makes it through the infamously grueling Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training. "Just last week, we secured Hell Week ... [we started with] 165 folks. We finished with 29. It's a tough pipeline and that is not uncommon," Szymanski told an audience at the National Defense Industrial Association's Special Operations/Low Intensity Conflict conference near Washington, D.C., on Tuesday. "Five classes a year, and that's what you have, demographically."


    Soldiers negotiate obstacles during the Cultural Support Assessment and Selection program.

    While the Army Rangers famously had three female officers earn their tabs in 2015 in a special program ahead of the December 2015 Defense Department mandate that actually gave women the right to serve in the Rangers, the elite regiment remains male-only, at least for now. To date, one female officer in a support military occupational specialty has completed the training process and will likely join the unit by the end of March, said Lt. Gen. Kenneth Tovo, commander of Army Special Operations Command. In other previously closed Army special operations elements, he said, two enlisted women have attempted special operations assessment and selection but haven't made it through. One, who was dropped due to injury and not to failure to meet standards, is likely to reattempt the process, Tovo said.

    Two female officers are also expected to begin assessment and selection in the "near future," he said. "So we're going slow," Tovo said. "The day we got the word that SF and rangers were available to women, our recruiting battalion that actually works for recruit command sent an email to every eligible woman, notifying them of the opportunity and soliciting their volunteerism. We are working things across the force through special ops recruiting battalion to talk to women and get them interested." Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command was the first service to report publicly that it had women in its training pipeline. But in a year, MARSOC has had just three applicants, and none who made it through the first phase of assessment and selection, commander Maj. Gen. Carl Mundy III said at the conference. Currently, he added, there are no women in training, and none on deck to enter the pipeline.

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    The article says two enlisted tried assessment and one failed to meet standards and another got a medical removal. Also two officer females will be entering assessment soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    I knew this would happen, they lowered the standards for Police and Firemen because enough women couldnt qualify, it didnt do the professions any good.
    I fully understand women on the board arent going to like my opinion. Its not personal but I do believe it.

    This is a HUGE mistake if the corp does it.


    Two years ago, Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the nation’s top military officer, laid down an edict on the Obama administration’s plan to open direct land combat jobs to women: If women cannot meet a standard, senior commanders better have a good reason why it should not be lowered.
    Today, the “Dempsey rule” appears to have its first test case.
    The Marine Corps just finished research to see if female officers could successfully complete its rigorous Infantry Officer Course.

    A IOC diploma is a must to earn the designation of infantry officer. Of 29 women who tried, none graduated; only four made it through the first day’s combat endurance test.
    Corps public affairs said it did not have the data on which tasks proved the toughest for women. But one particularly demanding upper-body strength test is climbing a 25-foot rope with a backpack full of gear. A candidate who cannot crawl to the top fails the test.



    Traditionalists see the 0-29 performance as a call to arms by those inside the Pentagon who are determined to have significant numbers of women in the infantry. They are on the lookout for standards they believe are no longer relevant in today’s battlefield.


    When are these idiots going to realize that men and women are made different! It is biology and no matter how much a woman identifies as a man, she will never be one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Is there a lot of call for that rope climbing thing in dessert wars?
    Yes or no to your question does not matter, the battlefields of the future, even the near future are unknown.
    "The powers of the federal government are enumerated; it can only operate in certain cases; it has legislative powers on defined and limited objects, beyond which it cannot extend its jurisdiction." James Madison 1788

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    Red face

    Uncle Ferd don't like it when his g/f orders him around...

    First Woman Takes Command of Special Forces Group Battalion
    11 Jun 2017 | Lt. Col. Megan A. Brogden was handed a flag today that was full of symbolism. It marked her new position as a battalion commander and all the responsibilities associated with that job. It marked the pinnacle of her U.S. Army career so far. And it marked a milestone in the continued diversification of Army special operations.
    Brogden, who assumed command of the Group Support Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group, is the first woman to assume command of a battalion within any of the Army's seven Special Forces groups. "It was a very humbling moment," she said after the ceremony on Fort Bragg's Meadows Field. "It's such a great organization." But while happy to take on the challenges and proud of her accomplishments, Brogden is hesitant to mark herself as breaking new ground or smashing through any so-called glass ceilings. "I don't necessarily see it as much of a milestone," she said. "I didn't go to Ranger school or selection. It's a lot about timing."

    Officials have called Brogden's assuming command a historic moment for 3rd Group and the rest of the Special Forces Regiment. But during the change of command, leaders made clear that she was chosen for her expertise and leadership, not because she is a woman. "She is without a doubt the right choice to assume command of this great unit at this time," said Col. Bradley D. Moses, the 3rd Special Forces Group commander who passed the battalion colors to Brogden, symbolically starting her time in command. Moses said Brogden has an unwavering dedication to soldiers, and a long history of supporting and leading special operations soldiers and maintaining the force. "You're a great officer, Megan. Smart, humble and full of energy. It's an honor to serve with you again," he said. "Lead from the front. Focus on the mission and take care of your soldiers and their families. I look forward to working with you in the days ahead."


    Members of the 3rd Special Forces Group attend a Valor Award Ceremony at Fort Bragg, N.C., in March 2014. The group's support battalion now has a woman commander.

    Brogden said the Group Support Battalion has a noteworthy reputation. It's the largest, most diverse of five battalions within the 3rd Special Forces Group, charged with supporting Special Forces teams deployed to remote and austere environments in Africa and the Middle East. "They have an awesome reputation," she said. And for the next two years, she said, she'll work to build on that reputation and innovate to better support soldiers and their missions. In taking command, Brogden said she feels no added pressure due to her gender. She said her selection as battalion commander shows the continuing growth of women within the special operations community. "I think the doors are already opening, and if females want to be in the Special Forces community, the opportunities are there," Brogden said.

    She noted that women are already assigned within the Group Support Battalion, have served within U.S. Army Special Operations Command as civil affairs and psychological operations soldiers for nearly two decades and have served in cultural support teams with Army Rangers and as part of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. Capt. Christopher Webb, a spokesman for the 3rd Special Forces Group, said the percentage of women serving in special operations is comparable to the active Army. The first female service members served alongside the predecessors of today's special operations soldiers as early as World War II, he said. But there's little doubt that the role of women in special operations is changing. In addition to filling more leadership roles, USASOC continues to integrate women into previously closed military jobs, officials said, stressing that standards have and will remain high for any position. Brogden took command from Lt. Col. Chris Paone, who had led the Group Support Battalion, also known as the Nomads, for two years.

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  7. #47
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    The ODAs are going to run amok. Putting someone in charge who doesn't know how Special Forces operate means that people is going to be relegated to paper pushing and bean counting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The ODAs are going to run amok. Putting someone in charge who doesn't know how Special Forces operate means that people is going to be relegated to paper pushing and bean counting.
    She didn't take over a C Team. She is running the Support Battalion. She won't be making operational decisions.

    Beans and Bullets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    She didn't take over a C Team. She is running the Support Battalion. She won't be making operational decisions.

    Beans and Bullets.

    Thanks. Got it.
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    Uncle Ferd thinks dat lady drone pilot is kinda cute...

    Female Marine Nears Halfway Point In Infantry Officers Course
    11 Aug 2017 | A female Marine Corps lieutenant has completed roughly five weeks of the grueling 13-week Marine Corps infantry officers' course.
    A Marine Corps lieutenant is well on her way to becoming the first woman to secure the military occupational specialty of infantry officer, having completed roughly five weeks of the grueling 13-week Marine Corps infantry officers' course. The officer, whose name has not been released, began the course in early July, said Maj. Amy Punzel, a spokeswoman for Marine Corps Training and Education Command. There are approximately eight weeks left in the course, Punzel said. To date, more than 30 female Marine officers have attempted IOC, most of them as volunteers on an experimental basis before the course formally opened to women in late 2014. Very few made it past the combat endurance test, a notoriously difficult ordeal at the start of the course with a high washout rate.


    Cpl. Valerie Gavaldon helps Cpl. Roxanne Cox adjust the front site post on her M16A2 service rifle, during the live-fire portion of their training at Camp Korean Village, Iraq

    The most recent previous attempt was earlier this spring. In a brief with reporters this week, Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Glenn Walters mentioned the officer currently in the course, suggesting Marine Corps leadership is watching her achievements closely. "We have a female officer right now in Infantry Officers Course, and she's part of the way through, doing very well," he said. "These are successes that never seem to get out in the press."

    Meanwhile, female enlisted infantrymen are already being assigned to operational infantry units in keeping with a Defense Department mandate that opened all previously closed fields to women at the start of 2016. Walters said this week that 278 women are now serving in jobs from which they'd previously been excluded, and another 40 female recruits had enlisted with contracts for these jobs. "Do we have hordes [of female Marines entering combat jobs]? No," Walters said. "But we have a pretty good nexus that are attempting to make these choices in life. And I'm very proud of them."

    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...rs-course.html
    See also:

    This Enlisted Woman Is the 1st to Fly Air Force Drones
    7 Aug 2017 | The Air Force has its first female enlisted Global Hawk drone pilot.
    The service said Tech. Sgt. Courtney completed its undergraduate remotely piloted aircraft training program known as the Enlisted Pilot Initial Class program, on Aug. 4. at Joint Base San Antonio-Randolph, Texas. She graduated alongside three other pilots. "Tech. Sgt. Courtney doesn't do this because she's a girl. She just gets up every day and puts her uniform on and comes to work and kicks butt because that's what she does," said Maj. Natalie, an instructor pilot with Air Education and Training Command's 558th Flying Training Squadron. "That's who she is. She's not a woman pilot; she's a pilot," Natalie said in a service release. The pilots and instructors' last names were withheld given the sensitivity of their mission, the release said.


    Tech. Sgt. Courtney has her remotely piloted aircraft wings pinned on by sons David and Riley during an RPA Training Course graduation Aug. 4, 2017, at Joint Base San Antonio-Randolph

    The Air Force has expanded its RPA reach by training enlisted airmen on the RQ-4 Global Hawk. The service announced in 2015 it would begin training enlisted airmen to operate the unarmed high-altitude reconnaissance RQ-4 drone. It is currently training pilots through the EPIC program, as well as the Initial Flight Training program. "It's great to fill that role as the first female," Courtney said. "It's awesome and humbling, but our units don't care if you're male or female, they just want you to be a good pilot."

    Courtney began her intelligence career as an imagery analyst and a sensor operator for the MQ-1 Predator. Sensor operators often sit "right seat" during RPA training and also in a live, ground station scenario. "I've been sitting in the right seat for a long time, so now I'm ready to sit in the left seat," Courtney said in the release. The first three EPIC students graduated from training May 5, 2017, the release said.

    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...ce-drones.html

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