'Good Kill'

[southwest88]

so, something doesn't exist until a scientist says it exists? I would say that it existed, but had not been identified and named.

Still, how did the WWII generation deal with it and come home and restore America?

Or we simply fixed them, much a you'd fix a cat or dog. See http://projects.wsj.com/lobotomyfiles/

"The U.S. government lobotomized roughly 2,000 mentally ill veterans—and likely hundreds more—during and after World War II, according to a cache of forgotten memos, letters and government reports unearthed by The Wall Street Journal. Besieged by psychologically damaged troops returning from the battlefields of North Africa, Europe and the Pacific, the Veterans Administration performed the brain-altering operation on former servicemen it diagnosed as depressives, psychotics and schizophrenics, and occasionally on people identified as homosexuals.

...

"The VA documents subvert an article of faith of postwar American mythology: That returning soldiers put down their guns, shed their uniforms and stoically forged ahead into the optimistic 1950s. Mr. Tritz and the mentally ill veterans who shared his fate lived a struggle all but unknown except to the families who still bear lobotomy’s scars.
...
"During eight years as a patient in the VA hospital in Tomah, Wis., Mr. Tritz underwent 28 rounds of electroshock therapy, a common treatment that sometimes caused convulsions so jarring they broke patients’ bones. Medical records show that Mr. Tritz received another routine VA treatment: insulin-induced temporary comas, which were thought to relieve symptoms.

‘Anxious to Start’
The VA hospital in Tuskegee, Ala., asks permission to perform lobotomies.


"To stimulate patients’ nerves, hospital staff also commonly sprayed veterans with powerful jets of alternating hot and cold water, the archives show. Mr. Tritz received 66 treatments of high-pressure water sprays called the Scotch Douche and Needle Shower, his medical records say.

"When all else failed, there was lobotomy."

(My emphasis)

I do like the phrasing, and restore America. The one answer, in retrospect, is that "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition." The other answer - some of those soldiers & civilians never really came back from the war. They were lost somewhere over there, & only their bodies came home again.

But as their horrors didn't fit the narrative of the booming 1950s, they were neatly excised, their stories left on the cutting room floor, as it were. Just as the Dick & Jane primers never show so much a bald spot in that endless perfect suburban lawn, we shoved these men & women - & their stories, & their suffering, & their families & loved ones - under the rug.

[southwest88]

I think the perceived "justness " of the war by both the soldiers and the society is a factor. I also remember when I was working as a direct services substance abuse counselor a training we received from two Psychologist who were former military and specialized in PTSD treatment. What they said was that debilitating PTSD was much more likely in soldiers who has mental illness and or substance abuse issues going in to the war. Since in general our society seems less physically and mentally healthy than we were a few generations ago this may be a factor as well

As I recall, the US military intake echelons & draft boards of WWI & WWII were appalled @ the poor physical quality of the draftees. See http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-libra...ory-of-fitness

"World War I. With America’s entry into World War I in 1917, hundreds of thousands of military personnel were drafted and trained for combat. After the war was fought and won, disturbing information became available regarding the readiness of our troops: One out of every three draftees had been unfit for combat, and many of those drafted were highly unfit prior to military training (Barrow & Brown 1988; Wuest & Bucher 1995). As a result of these dismal findings, the government passed legislation dictating that physical education programs within the public schools be improved. However, the heightened interest in physical education and concern over low fitness levels would prove short-lived as the United States entered the 1920s and the Depression.

"The Roaring ‘20s and Great Depression. Throughout history, the pattern has been evident that following a war, people tend to relax more and exercise less. The decade known as the Roaring ’20s was no exception and in fact earned its moniker because society lived more frivolously then than at any other time in recent history. Priorities centered on eating, drinking, partying and other forms of entertainment. With the stock market crash in 1929, fitness levels continued to decline. The gains that physical education programs had made through the passage of legislation following World War I were soon lost. Funding for these programs became limited and was eventually exhausted as the economy continued to falter. Despite this lack of interest in physical activity, it was during this period that Jack LaLanne first began to develop the programming and equipment that became the foundation of the modern fitness movement.

"World War II. Like World War I, the “War That Would End All Wars” again underscored the low fitness levels among Americans serving in the military. When the war was over, the public learned that the armed forces had needed to reject nearly half of all draftees or give them noncombat positions (Rice, Hutchinson & Lee 1958). Once again, these embarrassing statistics helped focus the country’s attention on the importance of fitness. Other significant developments during this time included the application of research to fitness practice, particularly by Dr. Thomas K. Cureton at the University of Illinois. Cureton also introduced fitness testing for cardiorespiratory endurance, muscular strength and flexibility and identified exercise intensity guidelines for improving fitness levels."

(My emphasis - details @ the URL)

PE is being reduced in public schools K-12 across the US - due to budget problems, as I recall. Given past history, I think we should revisit those decisions, & reemphasize physical fitness.

[donttread]

Right. Their world was likely a 25 mile radius, and there were no bombs.

Yup and their active lifestyle helped minimize the effect of anxiety .

[Tahuyaman]

Or we simply fixed them,

How did they fix something which they didn't know existed?

Than being said, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

[southwest88]

How did they fix something which they didn't know existed?

Than being said, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

The doctors & psychologists & so on knew there was something wrong with the people who exhibited symptoms. British medical experience might have been helpful - UK was in both WWs from the beginning, instead of arriving fashionably late. (But I don't know that UK medical experience with treating shellshock or combat fatigue was any better than US experience. Given the much higher proportion of military & civilians deaths as a percentage of the total UK population, I'm sure UK didn't lobotomize any but the most severe cases.) The US health system didn't have a definite diagnosis nor a regimen of treatment - prefrontal lobotomies were presumably the last resort. The cites indicate that US medical professionals were willing to try almost anything, as witness the sensory stimuli they did try.

Bear in mind that in the 1920s & '30s, various eugenic campaigns had been carried out in the US, sometimes with state sanction & sometimes without. It was basically a war against the genetically inferior - conveniently defined by people who were sure they & theirs would not be so trimmed. Those campaigns & the ideology behind them were picked up by Europeans, notably the NAZIs in Hitler's camp. The NAZIs managed to make the whole idea anathema for decades - & the idea of negative eugenics still has a whiff of rot & decay about it to this day.

It isn't surprising that government & what later became the VA lost the records, files, all traces of this mini-holocaust against US ex-military & hapless civilians. I'm sure the incidence of shattered careers, broken marriages, drinking, suicide, death by misadventure & so on must have been terrifyingly high among the caregivers who carried out this culling of the herd. @ least, I assume that the health professionals retained that much humanity.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Hunter gatherer life was not nearly as "nasty, brutish and short" as you have been led to believe. But when danger came they simply reacted with flight or fight and it was over. They weren't stationed somewhere waiting for the bombs to come

New Age prehistory. A more accurate picture was shown by what happened to the Mayans chasing the hero in Apolcalypto.

[donttread]

Right. Their world was likely a 25 mile radius, and there were no bombs.

Two very different kinds of stress. You have stated that neither situation scared you much ( not a really good thing psychologically BTW) , but for most people when they experience over powering stress thet they cannot immediately react to with fight or flight or at least grief it takes a toll. If you're in the woods and a bear charges you you either shoot the bear ( fight) and the stessor is over, the bear kills you ( again stressor over) or the bear badly injures you , you lose your gun and the beast walks around you in a circle growling coming ever closer. See different kind of stressor