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Thread: Obamas trade deal in trouble

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Stop, bob, boring and boorish.
    Chris, you must have forgot.

    I don't open up threads all that much. I get notices that posters commented on my posts. I then reply to those comments. It means you may suddenly see my reply, no ... you generally will suddenly see my comments, as if they come out of thin air. But it is the forum system. I can return to seeing threads but it takes too long. I get in a day as many as 100 remarks made to my posts. I am able this way to ensure that most of you will get a reply to your comments.

    While it will get you replied to, it also may annoy you or others. But that is the price of me using the forum system notice feature. Today as I opened the forum, I had 15 notices that I am cleaning up. I started with Dr. Who and her comments on skin color.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Irving Kristol is a major Neocon.

    Liberals who left the dems in disgust over national security issues. They are still liberals.
    It is wrong to simply say neocon and assign blame to them over what PNAC wrote to Bill Clinton. Even there, it was not used properly by the left wingers. Right wingers who fell for the claims of the left are all confused. Writing to a president does not mean you are a war monger.

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    Nothing said about neocons here disagrees with Irvin Krystol, The Neoconservative Persuasion

    ...Viewed in this way, one can say that the historical task and political purpose of neoconservatism would seem to be this: to convert the Republican party, and American conservatism in general, against their respective wills, into a new kind of conservative politics suitable to governing a modern democracy. That this new conservative politics is distinctly American is beyond doubt. There is nothing like neoconservatism in Europe, and most European conservatives are highly skeptical of its legitimacy. The fact that conservatism in the United States is so much healthier than in Europe, so much more politically effective, surely has something to do with the existence of neoconservatism. But Europeans, who think it absurd to look to the United States for lessons in political innovation, resolutely refuse to consider this possibility.

    Neoconservatism is the first variant of American conservatism in the past century that is in the "American grain." It is hopeful, not lugubrious; forward-looking, not nostalgic; and its general tone is cheerful, not grim or dyspeptic. Its 20th-century heroes tend to be TR, FDR, and Ronald Reagan. Such Republican and conservative worthies as Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, Dwight Eisenhower, and Barry Goldwater are politely overlooked. Of course, those worthies are in no way overlooked by a large, probably the largest, segment of the Republican party, with the result that most Republican politicians know nothing and could not care less about neoconservatism. Nevertheless, they cannot be blind to the fact that neoconservative policies, reaching out beyond the traditional political and financial base, have helped make the very idea of political conservatism more acceptable to a majority of American voters. Nor has it passed official notice that it is the neoconservative public policies, not the traditional Republican ones, that result in popular Republican presidencies....

    ...they are impatient with the Hayekian notion that we are on "the road to serfdom." Neocons do not feel that kind of alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state in the past century, seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable....

    ...And large nations, whose identity is ideological, like the Soviet Union of yesteryear and the United States of today, inevitably have ideological interests in addition to more material concerns. Barring extraordinary events, the United States will always feel obliged to defend, if possible, a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces, external or internal. That is why it was in our national interest to come to the defense of France and Britain in World War II. That is why we feel it necessary to defend Israel today, when its survival is threatened. No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary....

    In short, a pure social democrat, a big government con, war mongers for democracy.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    It is wrong to simply say neocon and assign blame to them over what PNAC wrote to Bill Clinton. Even there, it was not used properly by the left wingers. Right wingers who fell for the claims of the left are all confused. Writing to a president does not mean you are a war monger.
    Neocons are war mongers by nature.

    Great powers have lots of tools to use. Neocons tend to jump to military force without much, if any thought.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Chris, you must have forgot.

    I don't open up threads all that much. I get notices that posters commented on my posts. I then reply to those comments. It means you may suddenly see my reply, no ... you generally will suddenly see my comments, as if they come out of thin air. But it is the forum system. I can return to seeing threads but it takes too long. I get in a day as many as 100 remarks made to my posts. I am able this way to ensure that most of you will get a reply to your comments.

    While it will get you replied to, it also may annoy you or others. But that is the price of me using the forum system notice feature. Today as I opened the forum, I had 15 notices that I am cleaning up. I started with Dr. Who and her comments on skin color.
    Stop, bob, boring and boorish. No more harassing members.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    It is wrong to simply say neocon and assign blame to them over what PNAC wrote to Bill Clinton. Even there, it was not used properly by the left wingers. Right wingers who fell for the claims of the left are all confused. Writing to a president does not mean you are a war monger.

    Irvin Kristol co-founded the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) with Kagan.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Neocons are war mongers by nature.

    Great powers have lots of tools to use. Neocons tend to jump to military force without much, if any thought.
    We are going to have to agree to disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Stop, bob, boring and boorish. No more harassing members.
    Woah

    That is not happening. If so, you would have given us all evidence.

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    warning

    Warning

    Please stay on topic. Obama's trade deal, plus side issue on neocons. Final warning.


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