Let us not forget Yemen

[Peter1469]

Mon dieu--- you don't know what you are talking about if you think Jefferson was a neocon. Never mind that neocons didn't exit until the late 1960s and never held serious power until the late 1980s.

Jefferson and the other Founders wanted America to be an example to the world. They never advocated spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun. Or bayonet.

Jefferson only advocated action overseas to advance vital US interests. The Barbary pirates were his sole targets- and he did not force democracy on them. He forced them to sign a peace treaty.

You are a neocon. When you try to defend neocon excesses you moved into the world of realism (a term of art).

You weighing in actually proves my point. Neither of you know a Neocon, our analysis gone over repeatedly Peter proves to me you're lacking on that topic as well. The subject so broad, covering so much territory, some of us get lost. I for example, consider Thomas Jefferson an empire builder, a interventionist, a Neocon and a shining star example of American Neocon......an expansionist, an interventionist, and massive empire builder.

But then, I know what the fck I'm talking about. The father of modern day thought concerning American foreign Neo-conservatism was MacArthur. Who you indeed have admitted you know little about, in fact, neither you nor donttread even knew how to spell the man's name.

The Neo-conservative today.....is looking straight at Syria...and has been for some years. We've been urging direct military action against the Islamic State while they were rolling Toyota trucks across the Levant......while Observers to this forum were sound f'n asleep. Those Observers told time and again.......and indeed time and again once again....by Neocons mind you....that our involvement, our direct military involvement was not only inevitable, but costing blood and money the longer we waited. Those Neocons scoffed at and ridiculed. Undaunted, Neocons continued to speak truth, justice, and the American Way....until the world was awoken. And the lead was taken. France, then Britain. The Dutch got involved. The Russians already there. al-Qaeda, ISIS, Syrian freedom fighters, the Irainians.....Hezbollah, Hamas...all knee deep involved...

And Obama finally decided to get off his ass and insert ground troops and direct military firepower.

And like we Neocons told you.....time and again and once again....that was the turning point. The Islamic State began to lose prestige, ground, leadership, and facilitation. We Neocons careful as well to explain.....the Islamic State had begun its' transformation into a transnational terror organization long before we got involved, long before the Paris attacks and strikes in Brussels. We had been claiming for some years that we ignore what is happening and results in the outcomes in Syria at our own peril.

We had told you so. Reality once again proves us correct. A few of you don't like that but then again, we don't care....again....we had tried to tell you so.

[Ransom]

Mon dieu--- you don't know what you are talking about if you think Jefferson was a neocon. Never mind that neocons didn't exit until the late 1960s and never held serious power until the late 1980s.

I don't think Jefferson was a Neocon. I know he was a Neocon.

Jefferson and the other Founders wanted America to be an example to the world. They never advocated spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun. Or bayonet.

What you fail to understand is, the America the Founders exampled was the east coast of North America. Nearly the entire western part of the continent....yes including today's Canada....was foreign territory. And why not ask the American Indian if Jefferson spread democracy at the barrel of a gun. He was the first President to send a military mission West. Indians sent back to meet their new father.....and told their land now belonged to the United States......and would be defended on the barrel of a gun. You simply don't know you American history, Peter. Hang with me, I'll learn ya.

Jefferson only advocated action overseas to advance vital US interests. The Barbary pirates were his sole targets- and he did not force democracy on them. He forced them to sign a peace treaty.

No Sir. He purchased the entire Louisiana Territory doubling the size of our nation. Then sends a military expedition and stakes a sea to shining sea claim and the Barbary Pirates his sole target? Sorry.....Chief. There is an entire FOREIGN civilization here. The Spanish own the lower half of North America, The English dominate Canadian territory and push from the North, we purchased Louisiana and the Missouri River and tributaries from France. Jefferson perhaps one of the greatest empire builders in history.......at the f'n barrel of a musket. One of the greatest expansionists and sets forth a western expansion that sees millions of Americans west of St Louis in mere decades. Mining, dominating the fur and then leather markets and thus trade.

You are a neocon. When you try to defend neocon excesses you moved into the world of realism (a term of art).

No, I'm a proud Neocon, Peter. Admitted, guilty as charged, yes. All of the above. About three clicks the right of Attila the Hun, I think he was a tad soft.....little too tolerant of his enemies.

Lastly, I'd like to teach you a lesson using two of your statements here as you've stepped in it once again. You often try to define Neocon above you specifically use "They never advocated spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun. Or bayonet" as a definition. The definitions you've used....your terms of art to define a Neocon, always define the father of Modern Neo-Conservatism.

For.....who did advocate "spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun. Or bayonet?" Who advocated using the US Military to indeed spread democracy at the point of the rifle, Peter? Who wanted to directly confront the Communist Chinese......taking the position that if Soviet Russia wanted to get involved, bring it on? Who is nearly solely responsible for American involvement in Korea and our policy of occupation and democracy building?

You often use your 'neocons didn't exit until the late 1960s and never held serious power until the late 1980s and then give your definitions of what a Neocon is.....ad when you do....you define MacArthur to a tee.....thus destroying your own assertions. you're more fun than an ant farm.

[Ransom]

Our nation when Jefferson is elected President the light red sliver of the continent to the east. Jefferson purchases the Louisiana Territory.....the remainder of the continent is foreign. There are hundreds of thousand of Indians, many huge tribes. The Barbary Pirates Jefferson's only target? I'm afraid f'n not, Peter.

[Peter1469]

I stopped reading after I know he was a neocon.


This rises to the level of a complete break with reality.

I need to figure out how to frame topics without using terms of art for you. You have zero understanding of this stuff from an academic / informed level.

I don't think Jefferson was a Neocon. I know he was a Neocon.


What you fail to understand is, the America the Founders exampled was the east coast of North America. Nearly the entire western part of the continent....yes including today's Canada....was foreign territory. And why not ask the American Indian if Jefferson spread democracy at the barrel of a gun. He was the first President to send a military mission West. Indians sent back to meet their new father.....and told their land now belonged to the United States......and would be defended on the barrel of a gun. You simply don't know you American history, Peter. Hang with me, I'll learn ya.


No Sir. He purchased the entire Louisiana Territory doubling the size of our nation. Then sends a military expedition and stakes a sea to shining sea claim and the Barbary Pirates his sole target? Sorry.....Chief. There is an entire FOREIGN civilization here. The Spanish own the lower half of North America, The English dominate Canadian territory and push from the North, we purchased Louisiana and the Missouri River and tributaries from France. Jefferson perhaps one of the greatest empire builders in history.......at the f'n barrel of a musket. One of the greatest expansionists and sets forth a western expansion that sees millions of Americans west of St Louis in mere decades. Mining, dominating the fur and then leather markets and thus trade.


No, I'm a proud Neocon, Peter. Admitted, guilty as charged, yes. All of the above. About three clicks the right of Attila the Hun, I think he was a tad soft.....little too tolerant of his enemies.

Lastly, I'd like to teach you a lesson using two of your statements here as you've stepped in it once again. You often try to define Neocon above you specifically use "They never advocated spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun. Or bayonet" as a definition. The definitions you've used....your terms of art to define a Neocon, always define the father of Modern Neo-Conservatism.

For.....who did advocate "spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun. Or bayonet?" Who advocated using the US Military to indeed spread democracy at the point of the rifle, Peter? Who wanted to directly confront the Communist Chinese......taking the position that if Soviet Russia wanted to get involved, bring it on? Who is nearly solely responsible for American involvement in Korea and our policy of occupation and democracy building?

You often use your 'neocons didn't exit until the late 1960s and never held serious power until the late 1980s and then give your definitions of what a Neocon is.....ad when you do....you define MacArthur to a tee.....thus destroying your own assertions. you're more fun than an ant farm.

[donttread]

There is ample evidence (for those who are willing to look) that the US government's foreign policy of interventionism is fueling the fire in Yemen (and numerous other Middle Eastern countries).

How Drones Help Al Qaeda

Key words "for those who are willing to look"

[Ransom]

I stopped reading after I know he was a neocon.

I then gave my proof. Denial ain't no river in Egypt, Pete. Meanwhile, your historical perspective continues to be severely lacking.

This rises to the level of a complete break with reality.

I can see why someone not aware of reality would type this. You're wrong Pete.

I need to figure out how to frame topics without using terms of art for you. You have zero understanding of this stuff from an academic / informed level.

You need to read more and type less. Live...and learn. You're sadly uninformed.

[Ransom]

Jefferson...the most expansive President in US history. Who would begin nothing less than the extermination of Indian territories, Spanish and British holding, and drove the French off the continent.

If y'all would take some time to better inform yourselves, we wouldn't need Uncle Ransom to come in and stomp on your errors. Tighten up, Peter.

[Ethereal]

Jefferson...the most expansive President in US history. Who would begin nothing less than the extermination of Indian territories, Spanish and British holding, and drove the French off the continent.

If y'all would take some time to better inform yourselves, we wouldn't need Uncle Ransom to come in and stomp on your errors. Tighten up, Peter.

I see Ransom is still struggling with the distinction between domestic and foreign.

[Peter1469]

I see Ransom is still struggling with the distinction between domestic and foreign.

He is a neocon exo.

[waltky]

Yemen cholera outbreak nearing largest in recorded history...

Oxfam: Yemen cholera outbreak nearing largest in recorded history
Sept. 30, 2017 -- Yemen's massive cholera outbreak could infect more than one million people by the end of the year, experts believe.

The World Health Organization's Regional Office for the Eastern Mediterranean reported 745,205 suspected cholera cases and 2,119 associated deaths in the country as of Wednesday. British charity Oxfam sad the epidemic is already the fastest-growing in recorded history and is expected to soon surpass the 754,373 cases recorded in the aftermath of the 2010 earthquake in Haiti. "Yemen is the world's worst humanitarian crisis and it is getting even worse. More than two years of war have created ideal conditions for the disease to spread," Oxfam's Humanitarian Director Nigel Timmins said. "The war has pushed the country to the edge of famine, forced millions from their homes, virtually destroyed the already weak health services and hampered efforts to respond to the cholera outbreak."

A Yemeni stands near a sewage swamp covered with plastic waste and creating a high-risk environment for cholera, in Sana'a, Yemen, 26 July 2017. British charity Oxfam warned the cholera outbreak, which has reached 745,205 suspected cases, could soon become the largest in recorded history.

The United Nations and global children's advocacy group Save the Children warned of the ongoing cholera epidemic in early August while reinvigorating calls for international humanitarian aid. Less than half of the country's medical centers remain functional following a civil war that engulfed the country in March 2015. The severe damage to the medical system, along with 14.5 million people lacking regular access to clean water, allowed the deadly disease to spread since the epidemic began in March of this year.

The U.N estimated $2.1 billion is needed to prevent Yemen from becoming a completely failed state, but donor governments only provided half the amount at an April aid conference in Geneva. "Yemen's tragedy is a man-made catastrophe for which all sides bear responsibility. Yet it is being fueled by deliberate political decisions in London, Washington and other world capitals," Timmins said.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...l&utm_medium=5