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Thread: American killed as hostages rescued in Iraq

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    Common Sense's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twenty-Sixteen View Post
    No it isn't.
    It actually is. Name a time it was more secure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense View Post
    It actually is. Name a time it was more secure.

    It isn't. If it were we would not be shelling out 125 billion a year to take care of illegals. Do not believe every thing Obama tells you.

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    Kurmugeon (10-22-2015)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twenty-Sixteen View Post
    It isn't. If it were we would not be shelling out 125 billion a year to take care of illegals. Do not believe every thing Obama tells you.
    Again, can you tell me when it was more secure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense View Post
    Again, can you tell me when it was more secure?

    No, I only know it is not more secure. After all, an illegal with felony conviction re entered the country seven times and murdered a 32 year old woman. Two illegals with felony convictions just beat a four year old girl to death. The borders are not more secure. Don't believe everything Obama tells you. If they were more secure common sense would tell you our costs associated with illegal immigration would go down. It isn't.


    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/22.../?intcmp=hpbt2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twenty-Sixteen View Post
    It isn't. If it were we would not be shelling out 125 billion a year to take care of illegals. Do not believe every thing Obama tells you.
    I suspect that number is quite low.

    The CBO came out with a figure of each Illegal in America costing $65K per person on average. And there are at a minimum 32 Million Illegals currently in America.

    Not all of them are taking benefits, or sitting in Obama "Dream Child" care centers, and many try hard to avoid ever getting officially documented, but those also do not pay any taxes.

    Here is a link to an official 2007 document on the subject, a report written by the CBO.

    https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...mmigration.pdf

    It was written long before the huge Obama wave of Illegals.

    Here is another link to cost estimates by the Heritage foundation.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom..._United_States
    http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...he-us-taxpayer
    Heritage Foundation Study

    In 2013, the conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation released a study concluding that as of 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household has a net deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $14,387 per household.[22]




    Over a lifetime, the former unlawful immigrants together would receive $9.4 trillion in government benefits and services and pay $3.1 trillion in taxes. They would generate a lifetime fiscal deficit (total benefits minus total taxes) of $6.3 trillion. (All figures are in constant 2010 dollars.) This should be considered a minimum estimate. It probably understates real future costs because it undercounts the number of unlawful immigrants and dependents who will actually receive amnesty and underestimates significantly the future growth in welfare and medical benefits.
    -
    Last edited by Kurmugeon; 10-22-2015 at 06:12 PM.
    We are living in sad times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    I suspect that number is quite low.

    The CBO came out with a figure of each Illegal in America costing $65K per person on average. And there are at a minimum 32 Million Illegals currently in America.

    Not all of them are taking benefits, or sitting in Obama "Dream Child" care centers, and many try hard to avoid ever getting officially documented, but those also do not pay any taxes.

    Here is a link to an official 2007 document on the subject, a report written by the CBO.

    https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...mmigration.pdf

    It was written long before the huge Obama wave of Illegals.

    -

    It very well could be low.

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    Lots of history, & long memories

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    If we are now spending American Soldiers lives to rescue Kurds, that puts America in direct opposition to the official governments of Syria, Turkey, and Pakistan, who have been running bombing missions from U.S. regional air bases to bomb and kill the Kurds.

    ...

    This Soldier's life was spent to aid in the ultimate victory of which Government?
    -
    We - the US - have alternately wooed & rejected the Kurds, going back @ least to Pres. Nixon. The Kurds likely have no delusions about whose interests we're working for - ours. (Most of the sides in the ME have done the same, BTW. It's a twisty part of the World.)

    The Kurdish segment of Iraq denies that any Kurds were rescued. That may be true, or it may simply be politic of the Kurdish gov. to say so.

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    Is a more enlightened foreign policy possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    Under the Leadership of the Current Commander in Chief, our continued involvement in the middle east is questionable in motivation, demonstrated disastrous in outcome, and likely to place America in a future set of much greater vulnerability and entanglement.

    All at the cost of American Soldiers Lives and continual high defense expense.

    Congress voted to give Military Authority to Bush at the beginning of the Iraq War. They have authority over long term American Military involvement, i.e. Only Congress can declare war.

    ...
    -
    If you track back to likely problems in the future for the US, the Mexican American War is a good place to start. We (the US) knew that having Mexico immediately on our border would be a problem - but flush with expanding population, room to homestead, a stronger economic base & better government & so on, we never thought that people coming to the US to work would be a problem (labor shortages had been the usual problem for the colonies & then the US). Our incursions military & economic into Central & South America, the Caribbean - all had price tags on them, that have since come due. The suppression of legitimate representative governments that we might have been able to work with (in the long run) has also had costs - see Iran & the Shah, our tinkering in Nicaragua, Chile, Columbia, Haiti - it's a long list.

    Yah, only Congress can declare war, but they haven't done that since WWII. Congress could find its courage & cut the purse strings for the military, but I don't really see that happening either. As a World superpower, I don't see us cutting back economically, nor in terms of intervention in the World. It's simply too late for that, & entrenched economic & political interests need strife & competition to continue to function. We can try to channel that effort into less destructive venues - but if you look @ VW & the diesel engine testing fiasco, for instance, you soon see that it's very hard to keep corporates from cooking the books, if no other way to protect their profits seems to be available.

    It's a continuing problem. Just like political entities, you have to keep monitoring all these little fiefdoms, because bent by human desires, they tend to go off the tracks from time to time.

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    Data

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    I suspect that number is quite low.

    The CBO came out with a figure of each Illegal in America costing $65K per person on average. And there are at a minimum 32 Million Illegals currently in America.

    Not all of them are taking benefits, or sitting in Obama "Dream Child" care centers, and many try hard to avoid ever getting officially documented, but those also do not pay any taxes.

    ...

    -
    32 Million? That number seems very high. The last estimate I recall seeing was somewhere about 10-12 million in the US (an average of various estimates), & the trend was that people were leaving the US in the last few years - as the economy was bad. I'll have to look around some more.

    & of course people pay taxes. If they're here to work - most of them, as I recall - they have to have transportation, buy food, clothing, pay rent or some fee to live somewhere. So they pay sales tax, gasoline/diesel tax, city/state taxes, real estate, property, & on & on. Even if they have a stolen or fake SSN, they have money deducted from payroll, & they can't typically get that money back - as that would be an admission of a status problem. (SSA, BTW, cheerfully accepts that money & transfers it into the general SSA fund, I think. There is certainly no attempt to return it to the person who paid it in.)

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    DoD identifies soldier killed in commando raid in Iraq

    DoD identifies soldier killed in commando raid in Iraq


    The Defense Department on Friday identified the soldier killed during a commando raid in Iraq.

    Master Sgt. Joshua L. Wheeler, 39, died Thursday in Iraq’s Kirkuk province from wounds received by enemy small-arms fire, according to the DoD announcement.


    Wheeler, who joined the Army in 1995, was assigned to Headquarters, U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.


    He is the first American service member killed in action by enemy fire while fighting Islamic State militants.
    Last edited by Peter1469; 10-23-2015 at 08:36 AM.
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