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Thread: Nazism And Communism: Evil Twins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    So then you have to admit capitalism is evil correct? Or do you concede double standard?
    De Benoist is not a champion of capitalism and while De Benoist finds many faults with liberal western democracies they do not murder their own citizens. Why does a cpndemnation of communism bother you so?

    Unless the ideology suggested killing millions of people, which it does not, it cannot be evil.
    So now communism is not evil? You just insisted you did not say this but you are saying precisely that. Please pick one and stick with it.

    Again, read the Communist Manifesto yourself. I won't do your homework for you.
    Correct me where I'm wrong...or not.

    Sigh...
    I have to keep asking only because you can't seem to decide.

    Reiterating them doesn't make them more correct.

    You can correct me where I'm wrong...or not.

    Much like capitalists I suppose?
    No, actually. De Benoist does not live in mortal fear of his own government. Nor do I. Nor do you.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    I just did. There would be no politics if there is a FREE market! It would almost invariably lead to corporate rule as we have today.



    Other than the need to own a property or place to live, food to eat, etc.



    Pretty sure people need food to eat, places to live, etc.



    So you wouldn't mind if I came and lived on your property for free?



    As the ability to act without forced or coercive influence upon you. Be they bills, a boss, a tyrant, whatever.
    Asked for how it was so politically. Could you answer that?
    I just did.
    Your response addressed employers and employees, corporations. That's not politics, it's economics.



    Other than the need to own a property or place to live, food to eat, etc. ...Pretty sure people need food to eat, places to live, etc.
    Non-coercive, unless you're now anthropomorphising mother nature, lol.



    So you wouldn't mind if I came and lived on your property for free?
    Non sequitar.



    As the ability to act without forced or coercive influence upon you. Be they bills, a boss, a tyrant, whatever.
    IOW, freedom from responsibility.

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    Unless the ideology suggested killing millions of people, which it does not, it cannot be evil.
    “One has the right to wonder,” writes Courtois,” why killing in the hope of ‘a better life thereafter’ is more excusable than slaughter linked to a racist doctrine,and why does the illusion (or the hypocrisy) constitute attenuating circumstancesto mass murder. It is unclear why it is less important or less condamnable tokill those who have been promised happiness instead of killing those who havebeen promised nothing. To commit evil in the name of good is no better than tocommit evil in the name of evil. To destroy freedom in the name of freedom is nobetter than to destroy it in the name of the need to suppress it. The first may beeven worse. A vice is less excusable when practiced by those who profess virtue,because they are supposed to abide by their principles. Thus, there is a kind oflogic in judging more severely a system with good intentions, but which, “in reality,has been imposed everywhere with violence and has destroyed a huge numberof victims, than one where the perpetrators’ intentions were bad from thevery beginning.” In other words, mitigating circumstances are not on the side one may expect at first sight.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    De Benoist is not a champion of capitalism and while De Benoist finds many faults with liberal western democracies they do not murder their own citizens. Why does a cpndemnation of communism bother you so?
    What does he promote? I'm just curious.

    This being said, I was saying YOU (and I include this generally) have to admit capitalism is evil. Or admit a double standard.

    So now communism is not evil? You just insisted you did not say this but you are saying precisely that. Please pick one and stick with it.
    I don't believe in good or evil, so why would I say that? Again, straw man.

    Correct me where I'm wrong...or not.
    You cannot prove something that did not happen! Go through the forum and tell me where I said what YOU are claiming I said.

    I have to keep asking only because you can't seem to decide.
    no you keep asking because you are grasping at strawmen.


    You can correct me where I'm wrong...or not.
    There's not need to refute ungrounded claims of opinion.

    No, actually. De Benoist does not live in mortal fear of his own government. Nor do I. Nor do you.
    Now you're telling me what I feel?
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD
    I don't believe in good or evil, so why would I say that?
    That's a good question, why did you thus say:

    Quote Originally Posted by SD
    This being said, I was saying YOU (and I include this generally) have to admit capitalism is evil.
    You cannot argue the truth of something from self-contradiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    What does he promote? I'm just curious.
    I would say traditionalism.
    This being said, I was saying YOU (and I include this generally) have to admit capitalism is evil. Or admit a double standard.
    I HAVE to do no such thing. It's a red herring. Again, capitalist states have not murdered their citizens as a matter of course. Totalitarian states have. That's the topic. Why are you so uncomfortable with it.

    I don't believe in good or evil, so why would I say that? Again, straw man.
    Lame cop out.

    You cannot prove something that did not happen! Go through the forum and tell me where I said what YOU are claiming I said.
    Right! I'm not obligated to! The ball is in your court. Again, correct me where I am wrong...or not. Shrug.

    no you keep asking because you are grasping at strawmen.
    It was a question and one you are very uncomfortable answering.



    refute ungrounded claims of opinion.
    If such a blueprint exists you should be able to cite it and easily.

    Now you're telling me what I feel?
    So you live in mortal fear of your government?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Your response addressed employers and employees, corporations. That's not politics, it's economics.

    You're talking about freedom. You even mentioned freedom in an economic sense yourself. Now - AGAIN - you are walking away from what you have said previously!

    Non-coercive, unless you're now anthropomorphising mother nature, lol.
    First of all, look up the term anthropomorphizing. However, since you bring up nature, yes it would be a factor contributing to lack of freedom.


    Non sequitar.
    No, it's quite relevant to my point. If you have a bunch of people who CHOOSE not to work (since they are free), what do they do for food, shelter, etc? Are there laws preventing this? Because this would imply a government/state.


    IOW, freedom from responsibility.
    Responsibility is a societal form of coercion...
    Last edited by Savitri Devi; 09-06-2012 at 10:58 AM.
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    That's a good question, why did you thus say:



    You cannot argue the truth of something from self-contradiction.
    I was pointing out the double standard again. If you have read all my arguments that the only thing I have been arguing about!

    You also conveniently took part of the paragraph away where I mentioned the double standard. I know the only 'evidence' you have provided thus far in pure, ungrounded opinion. (Oh my a truthful purity statement!)
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

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    You're talking about freedom. You even mentioned freedom in an economic sense yourself.
    And you're talking politics, thus my question about what you said regarding politics. You said--if you remember after all your obfuscation--"capitalism is inherently hierarchical." That's a political statement. Please explain your claim politically--I doubt you can since capitalism is not political.


    First of all, look up the term anthropomorphizing.
    You're the one giving agency, human attributes to ideologies, and now nature:

    ...since you bring up nature, yes it would be a factor contributing to lack of freedom.
    Uh, you brought up nature, SD, you spoke of making a living, sheltering, eating. That's our nature as human beings.

    Nature is not coercive as you claim. Nature is, period.



    Non sequitar.
    No, it's quite relevant to my point.
    But wholly irrelevant to the point you were responding to.



    If you have a bunch of people who CHOOSE not to work (since they are free), what do they do for food, shelter, etc? Are there laws preventing this? Because this would imply a government/state.
    Your argument is political. Capitalism is economics. The state is coercive, capitalism is not, it is cooperative.

    That your argument is political is why I asked you to explain politically your claim "capitalism is inherently hierarchical."



    Responsibility is a societal form of coercion...
    To teenagers, perhaps. And liberals, and socialists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    I was pointing out the double standard again. If you have read all my arguments that the only thing I have been arguing about!

    You also conveniently took part of the paragraph away where I mentioned the double standard. I know the only 'evidence' you have provided thus far in pure, ungrounded opinion. (Oh my a truthful purity statement!)

    I agree, your self-contradiction is a double standard.

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