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Thread: Nazism And Communism: Evil Twins?

  1. #81
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    Savitri Devi's Avatar Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I would say traditionalism.
    What the heck is that?

    I HAVE to do no such thing. It's a red herring. Again, capitalist states have not murdered their citizens as a matter of course. Totalitarian states have. That's the topic. Why are you so uncomfortable with it.
    Yes, that's why the most militaristic country in the world is the US. An avowedly CAPITALIST country!



    Lame cop out.
    Sorry if being amoral is lame to you.

    Right! I'm not obligated to! The ball is in your court. Again, correct me where I am wrong...or not. Shrug.
    You clearly don't understand debate protocol or are just a complete idiot!

    It was a question and one you are very uncomfortable answering.
    The only thing I'm unconfortable about is why I am bothering to waste so much time debating with such uneducated people...


    If such a blueprint exists you should be able to cite it and easily.
    Your aforementioned "arguments" are but a few examples.

    So you live in mortal fear of your government?
    Pretty much.
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I agree, your self-contradiction is a double standard.

    Where did I contradict myself?
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

  3. #83
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    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    What the heck is that?
    His views can be found here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_de_Benoist

    Yes, that's why the most militaristic country in the world is the US. An avowedly CAPITALIST country!
    Sorry, but my government isn't lining up its own citizens for slaughter. It never has. Neither has yours. Totalitarian communist governments did as a matter of course.

    Sorry if being amoral is lame to you.
    Avoiding questions is lame.

    You clearly don't understand debate protocol or are just a complete idiot!
    And the personal attacks begin! No, sweetie, you do not understand the rules of debate. One is not obligated to prove a negative. If you believe a blueprint for the establishment of a communist exists and that communists, such as Lenin, did not follow this blueprint then make your case. Or not...

    The only thing I'm unconfortable about is why I am bothering to waste so much time debating with such uneducated people...
    Let us know when you find that blueprint.




    Your aforementioned "arguments" are but a few examples.
    What? lol


    Pretty much.
    Why?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  4. #84
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    [QUOTE=Chris;124218]And you're talking politics, thus my question about what you said regarding politics. You said--if you remember after all your obfuscation--"capitalism is inherently hierarchical." That's a political statement. Please explain your claim politically--I doubt you can since capitalism is not political.

    Communism is an economic system too!

    You're the one giving agency, human attributes to ideologies, and now nature:
    So describing something in a way you can understand (which I am starting to doubt your comrehension abilities entirely) is automatically anthropomorphizing? Good to know what I'm dealing with. Although by your standard we can't define anything non-human.

    Uh, you brought up nature, SD, you spoke of making a living, sheltering, eating. That's our nature as human beings.
    No $#@! Shirlock!



    Nature is not coercive as you claim. Nature is, period.
    Where did I claim it was?


    But wholly irrelevant to the point you were responding to.
    To someone who has the reading comprehension of a fruit fly (Oh no! Am I anthropormorphizing?)



    Your argument is political. Capitalism is economics. The state is coercive, capitalism is not, it is cooperative.
    So is communism.

    That your argument is political is why I asked you to explain politically your claim "capitalism is inherently hierarchical."
    Because it is an heirarchical economic theory. One in which some people own the means of production and some that do not!



    To teenagers, perhaps. And liberals, and socialists.
    Ad hominem.
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    Where did I contradict myself?
    You do like to obfuscate, don't you. This was made clear in post #75. I pointed out that you had said:

    "I don't believe in good or evil, so why would I say that?"

    right after you had said:

    "This being said, I was saying YOU (and I include this generally) have to admit capitalism is evil."

    Or you're just being disingenuous making claims about capitalism being evil when you don't believe it.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Just reading through that and he seems like a very inconsistent person. Like his writings suggest.

    Sorry, but my government isn't lining up its own citizens for slaughter. It never has. Neither has yours. Totalitarian communist governments did as a matter of course.
    You aren't from the US? Simply because they do their dirty work covertly, and often in other countries, doesn't mean they aren't guilty of it.

    Avoiding questions is lame.
    Answering is avoiding? Are you a moron?

    And the personal attacks begin! No, sweetie, you do not understand the rules of debate. One is not obligated to prove a negative. If you believe a blueprint for the establishment of a communist exists and that communists, such as Lenin, did not follow this blueprint then make your case. Or not...
    As I said Marx did not say killing 100,000,000 people would achieve communism. THAT has nothing to do with communism. Even if it did achieve communism, the ends justifying the means is another argument altogher.


    And you were taking my quote referring you asking ME to provide evidence of something I never said. Good grief, your reading comprehension is poor as well!


    Let us know when you find that blueprint.
    What blueprint are you referring to?



    What? lol
    You were saying I have yet to fail to discredit your arguments. Yet your arguments are not even coherent. You are quoting me out of context and saying I said things I never had. So you can understand my frustration (or maybe you can't, I don't want to assume anything about your intelligence or lack thereof).


    Why?

    Because I am not free.
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    You do like to obfuscate, don't you. This was made clear in post #75. I pointed out that you had said:

    "I don't believe in good or evil, so why would I say that?"

    right after you had said:

    "This being said, I was saying YOU (and I include this generally) have to admit capitalism is evil."
    YOU like to take things out of context. I was using that to prove the double standard of the argument you and Mister D seem to be upholding.

    Or you're just being disingenuous making claims about capitalism being evil when you don't believe it.
    No I'm pointing out a double standard which I have said all along if you could read properly and in context.
    “A 'civilization' that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged 'war crimes' - acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of one's cause - and tolerates slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories, and circuses and the fur industry (infliction of pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause), does not deserve to live.”
    - Savitri Devi

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    Communism is an economic system too!
    I agree. Problem is, as I pointed out earlier, like any other socialist system it adopts and promotes as its main tenant central planning, and central planning is by its very nature about control.




    I am starting to doubt your comrehension abilities entirely

    More obfuscation. Remember, you first claimed
    Ad hom is like waving a white flag you have no further argument to make.



    So describing something in a way you can understand ... is automatically anthropomorphizing?
    No, not what I said at all. I said describing nature and ideologies as agents or with human attributes is anthropomorphizing. You're creating metaphors for and then believing your own metaphors. That's dangerous.




    Uh, you brought up nature, SD, you spoke of making a living, sheltering, eating. That's our nature as human beings.
    No $#@! Shirlock!
    Now that's some argument! Remember, you first claimed capitalism coerced us to do those things. Now you agree it's just nature, human nature. Thanks you.




    To someone who has the reading comprehension of a fruit fly
    All this ad hom is just you




    Your argument is political. Capitalism is economics. The state is coercive, capitalism is not, it is cooperative.
    So is communism.
    Communism depends on central planning which is coercive.



    Because it is an heirarchical economic theory. One in which some people own the means of production and some that do not!
    That's not hierarchical. Besides, you're now describing feudalism, not capitalism. Free market capitalism is the social institution that emerges from the voluntary exchange of goods and services among individuals.



    Responsibility is a societal form of coercion...
    To teenagers, perhaps. And liberals, and socialists.
    Ad hominem.
    Ad hom is attacking the messenger, not the message. My comment was about your message, your message consisted of an idea typical of a teenager's view of things, freedom from responsibility. Freedom is a responsibility.
    Last edited by Chris; 09-06-2012 at 12:45 PM.

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    You do like to obfuscate, don't you. This was made clear in post #75. I pointed out that you had said:

    "I don't believe in good or evil, so why would I say that?"

    right after you had said:

    "This being said, I was saying YOU (and I include this generally) have to admit capitalism is evil."

    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    YOU like to take things out of context. I was using that to prove the double standard of the argument you and Mister D seem to be upholding.



    No I'm pointing out a double standard which I have said all along if you could read properly and in context.


    Nothing was taken out of context. Anyone can go back to your two juxtaposed statements that contradict themselves.

    To say something is X when you don't believe X is disingenuous, a double standard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savitri Devi View Post
    Just reading through that and he seems like a very inconsistent person. Like his writings suggest.
    In what way? Do you know? lol

    You aren't from the US? Simply because they do their dirty work covertly, and often in other countries, doesn't mean they aren't guilty of it.
    Again, the US and other liberal democracies do not line up their citizens for slaughter. In fact, only communist regimes have had that dubious distinction.
    Answering is avoiding? Are you a moron?
    First you tossed a red herring about capitalism into the fray to avoid an answer. When that was dismissed you claimed you don't believe in right and wrong. Spoken like a true sociopath. No wonder you find totalitariansim so appealing.

    As I said Marx did not say killing 100,000,000 people would achieve communism. THAT has nothing to do with communism. Even if it did achieve communism, the ends justifying the means is another argument altogher.

    And you were taking my quote referring you asking ME to provide evidence of something I never said. Good grief, your reading comprehension is poor as well!
    What Marx envisioned is irrelevant. The slaughters occured and were a direct consequence of Marx's ideas put into action. In any case, we're off topic. The end result (i.e. communist society) is assumed in Marx's work. There is no practical guide on how it is to be achieved. Historically, we know tens of millions of human beings were murdered to make it happen. Yeah, I'd want to disown that too but thankfully I'm not a communist. So we agree that Marx left no blueprint for achievignm his classless Utopia. Good.

    What blueprint are you referring to?
    None exists.

    You were saying I have yet to fail to discredit your arguments. Yet your arguments are not even coherent. You are quoting me out of context and saying I said things I never had. So you can understand my frustration (or maybe you can't, I don't want to assume anything about your intelligence or lack thereof).

    Apparently, we now agree. Marx left no guide on how his Utopia was to be achieved.

    Because I am not free.
    Do you know what "mortal fear" is? It means you are afraid of being killed. You may very well feel that you are not free but your government does not seek your elimination.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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