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Thread: Critique of liberal ideology

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    That anyone is calling for material equality is a direct consequence of the classical liberal ideal of equality. Poor Hayek never quite grasped that, did he?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Rothbard, Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature
    ...

    Let us proceed, then, to a critique of the egalitarian ideal itself – should equality be granted its current status as an unquestioned ethical ideal? In the first place, we must challenge the very idea of a radical separation between something that is "true in theory" but "not valid in practice." If a theory is correct, then it does work in practice; if it does not work in practice, then it is a bad theory....

    ...

    What, in fact, is "equality"? The term has been much invoked but little analyzed. A and B are "equal" if they are identical to each other with respect to a given attribute. Thus, if Smith and Jones are both exactly six feet in height, then they may be said to be "equal" in height. If two sticks are identical in length, then their lengths are "equal," etc. There is one and only one way, then, in which any two people can really be "equal" in the fullest sense: they must be identical in all of their attributes. This means, of course, that equality of all men – the egalitarian ideal – can only be achieved if all men are precisely uniform, precisely identical with respect to all of their attributes. The egalitarian world would necessarily be a world of horror fiction – a world of faceless and identical creatures, devoid of all individuality, variety, or special creativity.

    ...

    The great fact of individual difference and variability (that is, inequality) is evident from the long record of human experience; hence, the general recognition of the antihuman nature of a world of coerced uniformity. Socially and economically, this variability manifests itself in the universal division of labor, and in the "Iron Law of Oligarchy" – the insight that, in every organization or activity, a few (generally the most able and/or the most interested) will end up as leaders, with the mass of the membership filling the ranks of the followers. In both cases, the same phenomenon is at work – outstanding success or leadership in any given activity is attained by what Jefferson called a "natural aristocracy" – those who are best attuned to that activity.

    The age-old record of inequality seems to indicate that this variability and diversity is rooted in the biological nature of man. But it is precisely such a conclusion about biology and human nature that is the most galling of all possible irritants to our egalitarians. Even egalitarians would be hard put to deny the historical record, but their answer is that "culture" has been to blame; and since they obviously hold that culture is a pure act of the will, then the goal of changing the culture and inculcating society with equality seems to be attainable. In this area, the egalitarians slough off any pretense to scientific caution; they are scarcely content with acknowledging biology and culture as mutually interacting influences. Biology must be read out of court quickly and totally.

    ...

    We began by considering the common view that the egalitarians, despite a modicum of impracticality, have ethics and moral idealism on their side. We end with the conclusion that egalitarians, however intelligent as individuals, deny the very basis of human intelligence and of human reason: the identification of the ontological structure of reality, of the laws of human nature, and the universe. In so doing, the egalitarians are acting as terribly spoiled children, denying the structure of reality on behalf of the rapid materialization of their own absurd fantasies. Not only spoiled but also highly dangerous; for the power of ideas is such that the egalitarians have a fair chance of destroying the very universe that they wish to deny and transcend, and to bring that universe crashing around all of our ears. Since their methodology and their goals deny the very structure of humanity and of the universe, the egalitarians are profoundly antihuman; and, therefore, their ideology and their activities may be set down as profoundly evil as well. Egalitarians do not have ethics on their side unless one can maintain that the destruction of civilization, and even of the human race itself, may be crowned with the laurel wreath of a high and laudable morality.
    Despite D's claim Benoist claims they share egalitarian premises, it should be more than obvious by now that classical and modern liberalism are predicated on whole different, diametrically oppose premises.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    That anyone is calling for material equality is a direct consequence of the classical liberal ideal of equality. Poor Hayek never quite grasped that, did he?


    It's obvious now that Chris realizes what Benoit's argument actually is but his pride is acting up again.

    Let's recap:

    Chris objection #1: 'Benoist is a socialist!' No, Chris. Benoist is not a socialist.

    Chris moves on to objection #2: 'Benoist is claiming classical liberalism and progressvism are exactly the same!' No, Chris. Benoist acknowledges the diversity within liberal thought in the second paragraph of the OP.

    Chris moves on to objection #3: 'Benoist is claiming the classical liberal and progressivism concepts of equality' are exactly the same!' No, Chris. See above. That's not Benoit's argument.

    I wonder what's next? Benoist...um...uh...he's...he's...a communist!
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  4. #274
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    These are the points from the OP under contention despite D's attempts to distract with equivocation, ad hom, and straw men:

    Quote Originally Posted by Benoist
    Still, they share
    enough common points to classify them all as liberals. These common
    points also make it possible to define liberalism as a specific school of
    thought.

    ...applying the
    principles deduced from these economic doctrines to political life...

    ...doctrine based on an individualistic anthropology...
    It has been amply shown that classical and modern liberals do not share the common points Benoist claims nor egalitarianism D claims.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    These are the points from the OP under contention despite D's attempts to distract with equivocation, ad hom, and straw men:



    It has been amply shown that classical and modern liberals do not share the common points Benoist claims nor egalitarianism D claims.
    No one has equivocated, Chris. Ironically, you are engaging in straw men when you insist on it.

    Secondly, you already agreed with Benoist. You said that there are "strains of liberalism". This presupposes commonalities. Benoist is spot on and you agree.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post


    It's obvious now that Chris realizes what Benoit's argument actually is but his pride is acting up again.

    Let's recap:

    Chris objection #1: 'Benoist is a socialist!' No, Chris. Benoist is not a socialist.

    Chris moves on to objection #2: 'Benoist is claiming classical liberalism and progressvism are exactly the same!' No, Chris. Benoist acknowledges the diversity within liberal thought in the second paragraph of the OP.

    Chris moves on to objection #3: 'Benoist is claiming the classical liberal and progressivism concepts of equality' are exactly the same!' No, Chris. See above. That's not Benoit's argument.

    I wonder what's next? Benoist...um...uh...he's...he's...a communist!
    Bump.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Bump

    my junk is ugly

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    That's a grind.

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    Maybe, but except for the butter-face, that's a smokin hot bod.
    my junk is ugly

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