The myth of the cop killing ‘epidemic’

[PolWatch]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of the argument. Most of the cops I know are decent people doing a difficult job....but some of them have no business working as a mall guard. The cop who shot the 12 year old is a textbook example of someone who had no business carrying a gun....but somehow he was found not guilty. The only solution is to require body cameras and investigation by agencies not associated with the local law enforcement community.

[Common]

The fact that these incidents have in the past been swept under the rug is in part the reason that people are now demanding justice. Anytime innocent people are killed by law enforcement should be an issue. Oops is not really an excuse. Someone died. When an officer reacts badly and kills someone is not the same as if someone makes a mistake on an assembly line or puts an extra zero in the ledger. Those errors can be fixed. Dead is not fixable. Offering excuses that people who are untrained or perhaps mentally ill should control their emotions or the police might get panicked and kill someone doesn't really create an equivalency. Police are trained for their jobs, the general public is not. I would buy this argument if every citizen was required to pass an interaction with police course, but that is not the case. I appreciate the fact that police officers want to survive to police another day, however they also chose this occupation and the inherent risk.

For the same reason that the burden of evidence always rests with the prosecution to prove, particularly in the trials of capital crimes, jumping to conclusions about innocent people based on the interpretation of ignorant bystanders or killing someone because they have something that might possibly cause an injury is not a good enough reason to kill. When an officer or officers can keep space between themselves and a possible perpetrator of violence, but don't actually ascertain any violent intent or cannot find any way to disarm or disable a person with a possible sharp object, there is something wrong with their training. The value of human life then starts taking second place to expediency and personal fear. That is not justice, it is a license to kill with immunity.

You missed the entire point of the thread Dr Who, this thread wasnt about excusing the incidents that occur that were criminal in nature and not to excuse the bad behavior of any police. It was to demonstrate that the entire media campaign and subsequent protests are all embellished overstated all for political expediency.

These anti police campaigns have happened before and most always around election times.
Lets get some truth into this subject ok. EVERYONE loves to sue the police, LAWYERS especially love to sue the police. Its a lucrative undertaking for lawyers to take a case involving police and the first thing they do is make press releases on the HORROR that police have perpetrated, the media in turn slaps all over the front page and its foremost on the 6 oclock news, doesnt matter if its true. Unfortunately even though the lionshare of those are bogus cities many times PAY and that just makes them more bold in their pursuit of cash.

Claiming racism, biasness and a myriad of other excuses have always been used to avoid prosecution or arrest. Its the oldest game in the book to blame police for the holes in your underwear.

I personally embroiled in a internal affairs investigation over a totally contrived bogus claim by a woman that I had sexually harrassed her fondled her told her id exchange sex for freedom and used and called her the "N" word several times during the exchange. NONE of it was true. Accusations whether false or not can stick in the minds of others. If you were alone with your accuser at the time and there are no other witness its a she said he said and you can never be fully exonerated. After that everyone you work with have to go by your past reputation and personal knowledge and judgement of your character, other cops know which cops are prone to sexual harrassment, violence and lies.

You can believe this or not police are accused of HORRIFIC things that are all flat out lies. Thats why almost everything is not accepted as gospel truth until its PROVEN. Its the old crying wolf, only this crying wolf is out right lieing accusations day in and day out. People do anything to not get arrested and imprisoned.

The accusations have NOTHING to do with incidents where the Officer committed a crime of any sort or made a mistake so grievous, no one excuses any of that and Police loathe when it happens but those incidents are "rare" occurences that are now like before being made into a political ball.

The police will be here tomorrow, next year, 10 years from now and will be here when our great great grandkids are senior citizens. Our society assures the police will always be.

Ranting raving, accusing and protests never changed police, it makes them stand down and hold back and that only accomplishs to make for more victims and more bodies. Only one thing changes police, technology, like tasers instead of billys and pepper spray and Body Cameras.

One thing ALL the Police haters can depend on, police will ALWAYS SHOOT FIRST if they believe they are in any danger and in the defense of any citizen they believe are in danger. Police are never going to die because others want them to.

Blaming police for what is clearly a mostly societal problem does NOTHING and wont ever do anything to stop police and citizen confrontations.

[Common]

The fact that these incidents have in the past been swept under the rug is in part the reason that people are now demanding justice. Anytime innocent people are killed by law enforcement should be an issue. Oops is not really an excuse. Someone died. When an officer reacts badly and kills someone is not the same as if someone makes a mistake on an assembly line or puts an extra zero in the ledger. Those errors can be fixed. Dead is not fixable. Offering excuses that people who are untrained or perhaps mentally ill should control their emotions or the police might get panicked and kill someone doesn't really create an equivalency. Police are trained for their jobs, the general public is not. I would buy this argument if every citizen was required to pass an interaction with police course, but that is not the case. I appreciate the fact that police officers want to survive to police another day, however they also chose this occupation and the inherent risk.

For the same reason that the burden of evidence always rests with the prosecution to prove, particularly in the trials of capital crimes, jumping to conclusions about innocent people based on the interpretation of ignorant bystanders or killing someone because they have something that might possibly cause an injury is not a good enough reason to kill. When an officer or officers can keep space between themselves and a possible perpetrator of violence, but don't actually ascertain any violent intent or cannot find any way to disarm or disable a person with a possible sharp object, there is something wrong with their training. The value of human life then starts taking second place to expediency and personal fear. That is not justice, it is a license to kill with immunity.

You missed the entire point of the thread Dr Who, this thread wasnt about excusing the incidents that occur that were criminal in nature and not to excuse the bad behavior of any police. It was to demonstrate that the entire media campaign and subsequent protests are all embellished overstated all for political expediency.

These anti police campaigns have happened before and most always around election times.
Lets get some truth into this subject ok. EVERYONE loves to sue the police, LAWYERS especially love to sue the police. Its a lucrative undertaking for lawyers to take a case involving police and the first thing they do is make press releases on the HORROR that police have perpetrated, the media in turn slaps all over the front page and its foremost on the 6 oclock news, doesnt matter if its true. Unfortunately even though the lionshare of those are bogus cities many times PAY and that just makes them more bold in their pursuit of cash. Thes false claims harden the police defense of each other and make the public BELIEVE that theres far more bad going on then there ever is.

Claiming racism, biasness and a myriad of other excuses have always been used to avoid prosecution or arrest. Its the oldest game in the book to blame police for the holes in your underwear to avoid arrest or "GET EVEN" with the cop that arrested you.

I personally embroiled in a internal affairs investigation over a totally contrived bogus claim by a woman that I had sexually harrassed her fondled her told her id exchange sex for freedom and used and called her the "N" word several times during the exchange. NONE of it was true. Accusations whether false or not can stick in the minds of others. If you were alone with your accuser at the time and there are no other witness its a she said he said and you can never be fully exonerated. After that everyone you work with have to go by your past reputation and personal knowledge and judgement of your character, other cops know which cops are prone to sexual harrassment, violence and lies.

You can believe this or not police are accused of HORRIFIC things that are all flat out lies. Thats why almost everything is not accepted as gospel truth until its PROVEN. Its the old crying wolf, only this crying wolf is out right lieing accusations day in and day out. People do anything to not get arrested and imprisoned.

The accusations have NOTHING to do with incidents where the Officer committed a crime of any sort or made a mistake so grievous, no one excuses any of that and Police loathe when it happens but those incidents are "rare" occurences that are now like before being made into a political ball.

The police will be here tomorrow, next year, 10 years from now and will be here when our great great grandkids are senior citizens. Our society assures the police will always be.

Ranting raving, accusing and protests never changed police, it makes them stand down and hold back and that only accomplishs to make for more victims and more bodies. Only one thing changes police, technology, like tasers instead of billys and pepper spray and Body Cameras.

One thing ALL the Police haters can depend on, police will ALWAYS SHOOT FIRST if they believe they are in any danger and in the defense of any citizen they believe are in danger. Police are never going to die because others want them to.

Blaming police for what is clearly a mostly societal problem does NOTHING and wont ever do anything to stop police and citizen confrontations that go badly

[Cigar]

You wont get an answer to that

Yep you're right, bait not taken.

[Common]

Serious question.... What changes would satisfy you?

You cant get an answer to that because none of the ranting protesters have a clue what to change and nothing less than either disbanding the police altogether so they can carry on the carnage unimpeded will do. You cant change the truth and the truth is that citizens are killing each and thats the 99% of all the deaths. Ask what they can change about that, bet you dont get an answer to that either.

[Cigar]

You cant get an answer to that because none of the ranting protesters have a clue what to change and nothing less than either disbanding the police altogether so they can carry on the carnage unimpeded will do. You cant change the truth and the truth is that citizens are killing each and thats the 99% of all the deaths. Ask what they can change about that, bet you dont get an answer to that either.

Oh don't worry Common, we all know change has already started ... it's going to take a while, but it had already started.

Now how do I know that?

Because people are getting really really really nervous.

[Cigar]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of the argument. Most of the cops I know are decent people doing a difficult job....but some of them have no business working as a mall guard. The cop who shot the 12 year old is a textbook example of someone who had no business carrying a gun....but somehow he was found not guilty. The only solution is to require body cameras and investigation by agencies not associated with the local law enforcement community.

Ever ask yourself this?

The sometimes-coded but increasingly overt ways that some Americans are presumed guilty and violence-prone while others are assumed to be principled and peaceable unless and until provoked — even when actually they are the only one's armed — is remarkable, incredible even.


Deliberate language choices are always a wise and reasonable move. That is especially true when telling stories of conflict with government and political protests. But the incredibly limited and relatively soft range of words in wide use Sunday seems to extend beyond all of that. The descriptions of events in Oregon appear to reflect the usual shape of our collective assumptions about the relationship between race and guilt — or religion and violent extremism — in the United States.

White Americans, and their activities and ideas seem always to stem from a font of principled and committed individuals. While "others" are a cultural or community thang.

[donttread]

There is a political campaign thats always the case during election times. The right and the left grab on issues to fire up their base. The media which mostly leans left picks up the lefts water and runs with a media campaign to slander or vilify to the lefts end. THe blogs pick up the right wing mantra along with talk radio.

In the end almost NONE of it is based in real truth.

To hear the media tell it, America is in the grip of an unprecedented crime wave, an orgy of wanton murder in which heavily armed thugs randomly gun down innocent unarmed people, some of them teens, just for sport.

Except that these homicidal goons are wearing the blues and badges of American police departments. It’s the narrative that’s given rise to the protest movement Black Lives Matter and to a growing public mistrust of the police in general. From Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., to the recent shooting of a middle-aged woman and a teen in Chicago, the body count seemingly keeps rising, exacerbating racial tensions and keeping the nation on edge. And each incident is breathlessly reported by a media determined to show that America remains deeply, irredeemably racist.


Last week, The Washington Post published a study of the police shootings that took place in 2015. Likely they intended the story to be shocking — as on Dec. 24, 965 people were killed by police! Instead, the report quells the notion that trigger-happy cops are out hunting for civilian victims, especially African-Americans. Among its key findings:

• White cops shooting unarmed black men accounted for less than 4% of fatal police shootings.
• In three-quarters of the incidents, cops were either under attack themselves or defending civilians. In other words, doing their jobs.
• The majority of those killed were brandishing weapons, suicidal or mentally troubled or bolted when ordered to surrender.
• Nearly a third of police shootings resulted from car chases that began with a minor traffic stop.

The moral of this story is: Don’t point a gun at the cops and don’t run when they tell you stop, and you’re likely to survive. Since the population of the US is about 318 million people, a thousand deaths at the hands of police works out to 1 in 318,000. You have a better chance of being killed in a violent storm (1 in 68,000) or slipping in the tub (1 in 11,500) than being shot by a cop, no matter what color you are.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/02/myth-of...ling-epidemic/

While we clearly know that the media reports and stresses that which will increase ratings, we also have a nation that for the first time in history is exposed to several videos of out of control cops murdering civilians who posed no, or minimal current danger. It will and it should take the public a while to put the numbers in perspective. Also did you know that the dangers of police work are also overblown? More sanitation workers are killed on the job than cops. So the hype is a teo way street

[Common]

While we clearly know that the media reports and stresses that which will increase ratings, we also have a nation that for the first time in history is exposed to several videos of out of control cops murdering civilians who posed no, or minimal current danger. It will and it should take the public a while to put the numbers in perspective. Also did you know that the dangers of police work are also overblown? More sanitation workers are killed on the job than cops. So the hype is a teo way street

True about the videos but what you are neglecting to acknowledge is that my thread statistics INCLUDE all videos and the stats clearly show that the medias portrayal and yours is pure garbage

Umm are you a police officer or ever have been ? You must be if you can make ANY comment about the hazards of being one. I chuckle at comments like this is overblown and its not this or that when the person obviously is clueless. Its like people that have never been in combat and question the actions of troops that are under extreme duress.

You may very well be one of those individuals that have never even been anywhere near a bad neighborhood.

129 line of duty deaths in 2015 can you name another non military profession that has that many

[Common]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of the argument. Most of the cops I know are decent people doing a difficult job....but some of them have no business working as a mall guard. The cop who shot the 12 year old is a textbook example of someone who had no business carrying a gun....but somehow he was found not guilty. The only solution is to require body cameras and investigation by agencies not associated with the local law enforcement community.

There are employees in every business that should not have ever been employed, police and firemen and schoolteachers are no different. The difference is however is that police jobs are not anything like any other. Everyone likes to babble about how bad the police are and the police save thousands of people every year of all walks.

I dont know which 12 yr old you are referring to but if you are talking about the kid with the toy gun any police officer could have made the mistake including me.

Having said that I wholeheartedly agree there are many police officers that should have never been hired and should not carry a gun and the reason for that is Progressive Liberals demanding that all police qualifications be lowered across the board.

Not only were physical requirements destroyed to allow women to be police officers but they were forced to hire people that traditionally would never have been hired. When I was hired you couldnt even have a juvinile record

Ive said this many time over. The lowering of qualifications has led to the cause of much of what we have today.
Individuals that have no confidence in their physical ability, DO WHAT ? first they get scared when they get scared their judgement becomes impaired and that leads to guess what ? INAPPROPRIATE SHOOTINGS.

Not only where the initial physical qualifications lowered but the ongoing phsycial qualifications <yearly> are not adhered too. For gods sakes we have cops with bellys down to their knees and cops 5'2 90lbs are you KIDDING ME. Thats not the fault of police officers. That is the fault of the same people who vilify the police everyday. YOU DID IT now you gotta live with it.

When the qualifications were had to be certain size within a weight range with a Crystal Clear Record and be able to pass a physical qualification test INCLUDING getting in a boxing ring with an instructor that tried hard to know you out. You had police officers with alot more confidence they could handle a situation with out mechanical means.

Now add to that theres many more guns on the street and police are very much aware of that and that inner cities are worse today than in the 60s crime statistics and just what the hell do you people expect ?

I tell my son in laws if you "believe" you are going to get hurt SHOOT FIRST and the old saying hangs true rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6