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Thread: Gun Control and the Old West

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    Gun Control and the Old West

    Gun Control and the Old West
    By Ross Collins
    History News Service, Summer 1999.

    The smoke has cleared, and we peer down at the victim: another gun control bill, shot full ‘o holes. Just like in the old horse operas: a hero again shoots to protect a precious freedom, America’s right to bear arms. For many who keep a romantic image of America’s past, gun control is like that, a battle steeped in American tradition. It calls us back to those legendary days of the Old West, when cowboys defended their honor and their horses by way of their Colts
    .
    In fact, most historians see the cowboys of the Old West as THE defining heroes of 20th-century America. He’s used to sell everything from soap to hats. He’s apparently also an ideal American for anti-gun control groups: gun shows and gun advertising promote from a distinctive Old West flavor.

    Today’s anti gun control forces count their strongest support among society’s leaders from the states that once formed part of the Old West.
    The actual Old West pioneers of historical fact viewed matters differently, however. They would certainly hail the campaign to protect an American right to bear arms, but the record puts them behind "moderate, common-sense measures" for gun control—the very kind that President Clinton has proposed.

    Pioneer publications show Old West leaders repeatedly arguing in favor of gun control. City leaders in the old cattle towns knew from experience what some Americans today don't want to believe: a town which allows easy access to guns invites trouble.
    What these cow town leaders saw intimately in their day-to-day association with guns is that more guns in more places caused not greater safety, but greater death in an already dangerous wilderness. By the 1880s many in the west were fed up with gun violence. Gun control, they contended, was absolutely essential, and the remedy advocated usually was usually no less than a total ban on pistol-packing.
    The editor of the Black Hills Daily Times of Dakota Territory in 1884, called the idea of carrying firearms into the city a “dangerous practice,” not only to others, but to the packer himself. He emphasized his point with the headline, "Perforated by His Own Pistol."
    The editor of the Montana’s Yellowstone Journal acknowledged four years earlier that Americans have "the right to bear arms," but he contended that guns have to be regulated. As for cowboys carrying pistols, a dispatch from Laramie’s Northwest Stock Journal in 1884, reported, "We see many cowboys fitting up for the spring and summer work. They all seem to think it absolutely necessary to have a revolver. Of all foolish notions this is the most absurd."

    Cowboy president Theodore Roosevelt recalled with approval that as a Dakota Territory ranch owner, his town, at the least, allowed "no shooting in the streets." The editor of that town's newspaper, The Bad Lands Cow Boy of Medora, demanded that gun control be even tighter than that, however. Like leaders in Miles City and many other cow towns, he wanted to see guns banned entirely within the city limits. A.T. Packard in August 1885 called "packing a gun" a "senseless custom," and noted about a month later that "As a protection, it is terribly useless.”
    http://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~rcollins...ship/guns.html

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    GrassrootsConservative's Avatar Banned
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    Opinionated, emotional pandering:

    but the record puts them behind "moderate, common-sense measures" for gun control—the very kind that President Clinton has proposed.
    Why don't we have this discussion in the form of facts instead of garbage? Here's 2 FACTS for you to consider:

    Cars kill more people every year than guns do.
    If you're going to ban something for the "safety" of humanity, why not start there?

    Criminals will always have guns.
    A gun ban or gun control or whatever you want to call it, would require people who legally own guns to turn them in or destroy them. There is nothing we can do to make sure that people who don't have their guns in a legal fashion turn theirs in, since they are not registered or licensed. The definition of a criminal is someone who breaks the law. That's what a criminal is. There is no evidence to show that criminals are going to give up their guns just because the law says they have to. In the words of another poster on here "Why don't we just make murder illegal?"

    Can you debate these two facts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrassrootsConservative View Post
    g:
    Cars kill more people every year than guns do.
    If you're going to ban something for the "safety" of humanity, why not start there?
    Criminals will always have guns.

    What TF has " cars kill ---------" got to do with the Topic or possible discussion? Nuclear weapons can kill ................... . So what?

    "Criminals will always have guns .........." .
    Is that it?
    What is your point ?
    People always have knives and forks . So what ?
    You are a genuine Knob Head . Will check your Auction price .

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    Bigred1cav's Avatar Senior Member
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    Cars are not designed to kill guns are.

    When used as deigned handguns shoot projectiles at humans.

    When used as deigned cars provide transportation.

    Criminals will always violate laws that is why they are called criminals.

    Idiots will always become criminals when they use their guns for a crime.

    Gun carry advocates are criminals in waiting.

    Anybody that thinks the government is out to get him, is to $#@!ing crazy to possess a gun.

    Anybody that thinks a gun will do anything but shoot a perpetrator in the back after he has committed a crime is a fool.

    More family members are killed by home located guns than criminal home invaders.

    There are no valid statistics to compare the data of crimes foiled by a civilian with a firearm. NRA anecdotal PR stories are not evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigred1cav View Post
    Cars are not designed to kill guns are.

    When used as deigned handguns shoot projectiles at humans.

    When used as deigned cars provide transportation.

    Criminals will always violate laws that is why they are called criminals.

    Idiots will always become criminals when they use their guns for a crime.

    Gun carry advocates are criminals in waiting.

    Anybody that thinks the government is out to get him, is to $#@!ing crazy to possess a gun.

    Anybody that thinks a gun will do anything but shoot a perpetrator in the back after he has committed a crime is a fool.

    More family members are killed by home located guns than criminal home invaders.

    There are no valid statistics to compare the data of crimes foiled by a civilian with a firearm. NRA anecdotal PR stories are not evidence.
    So you're mad about guns being successful now, too? Not just people, but when a gun is successful you're angry, jealous?
    Do you want to tax those guns? I bet you do.

    When used as designed, handguns shoot projectiles at objects. Not humans, objects. Sometimes humans, but sometimes animals, sometimes targets. Always an object. To get any more specific than that is a lie, because handguns are designed to shoot anything, just to shoot.

    Yes, cars provide transportation. Guns provide protection.

    Yes.

    Yes.

    Gun carry advocates are criminals in waiting? Do you have any evidence of this? A link? A graph that shows correlation between gun carry advocates and crime?

    The government cares about you like fishhooks care about fish. To think anything else is foolish.

    Guns have killed many would-be-criminals. Here's an example of one:
    http://www.snopes.com/crime/dumdum/gunshop.asp

    That's the result of irresponsible gun owners, obviously.

    Proof of this last part?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigred1cav View Post
    Cars are not designed to kill guns are.

    When used as deigned handguns shoot projectiles at humans.

    When used as deigned cars provide transportation.

    Criminals will always violate laws that is why they are called criminals.

    Idiots will always become criminals when they use their guns for a crime.

    Gun carry advocates are criminals in waiting.

    Anybody that thinks the government is out to get him, is to $#@!ing crazy to possess a gun.

    Anybody that thinks a gun will do anything but shoot a perpetrator in the back after he has committed a crime is a fool.

    More family members are killed by home located guns than criminal home invaders.

    There are no valid statistics to compare the data of crimes foiled by a civilian with a firearm. NRA anecdotal PR stories are not evidence.
    Gun carry advocates are criminals in waiting.
    Got anything at all to back this malarkey up?

    There are no valid statistics to compare the data of crimes foiled by a civilian with a firearm.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigred1cav View Post
    Cars are not designed to kill guns are.

    When used as deigned handguns shoot projectiles at humans.

    When used as deigned cars provide transportation.

    Criminals will always violate laws that is why they are called criminals.

    Idiots will always become criminals when they use their guns for a crime.

    Gun carry advocates are criminals in waiting.

    Anybody that thinks the government is out to get him, is to $#@!ing crazy to possess a gun.

    Anybody that thinks a gun will do anything but shoot a perpetrator in the back after he has committed a crime is a fool.

    More family members are killed by home located guns than criminal home invaders.

    There are no valid statistics to compare the data of crimes foiled by a civilian with a firearm. NRA anecdotal PR stories are not evidence.
    There actually might be a study or two on the subject?

    http://marquettetribune.org/2012/02/...es-study-says/

    here are some raw statistics The FBI and US government agencies are not the NRA last time that I checked

    http://www.gunblast.com/Gun_Facts.htm

    Here is an article that dismisses the concel carry and the prevention of violent crime because rates across the nation have been dropping since 1995

    It conclusion is that because of this the expansion of conceal carry in the state can not be given credit? Is it right.

    http://www.txchia.org/history.htm

    In 1994 and 1995 15 states passed conceal carry laws, ther were a few before this, but there were several more that followed. ?So the decline since 1995 in violent crime just happens to be the same time that a buch of states joined a few, and then had more follow.

    So national violent crime was going down, because nationally there were a lot more states with conceal caryy laws.

    The chart in this article shows just how dramatic the relaxing of gun laws and the decline in violent crime go together?

    So you can make up all of the statments that you want to be America is a safer place since the states have allowed law abiding citizens to carry guns.

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    Something for the lawyers to consider.

    Red's OP speaks of the 1880s and territories.

    It wasn't until then and after that the BoRs began to be incorporated. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorpo...Bill_of_Rights.

    The second wasn't incorporated until 2010. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago.

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    angry at what your lust to murder humans? No I had my fill of human hunting. What is it with the right wing mind that is so deficient as to long for shooting people?

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