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Thread: The Treaty of Westphalia and the origins of the nation-state system

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    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark III View Post
    Oh please, I figured you out a long time ago.
    That's nice, Mark. Now go make a few more Trump threads. You're on the clock!
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Peter1469 (05-16-2016)

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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Here is the Wiki on it. Some of it is useful.

    Basically the nation-state system replaced the previous age of empires with the primary political entity being nation-states (a merging of the two separate concepts).

    Nation-states are the centerpiece of the international system and any international institutions are only tools for the nation-states to work together.

    And the OP sees an opportunity of stepping back from the current failing globalization found in the entity called the EU by returning to nation states united by common interest yet remaining independent and sovereign.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Peter1469 (05-16-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Here is the Wiki on it. Some of it is useful.

    Basically the nation-state system replaced the previous age of empires with the primary political entity being nation-states (a merging of the two separate concepts).

    Nation-states are the centerpiece of the international system and any international institutions are only tools for the nation-states to work together.
    It's hard for people today to grasp but our ancestors just didn't think in terms of nations. Spain and France did not fight a series of wars in the 1500s, for example. The Houses of Hapsburg and Valois did. The bonds of loyalty and duty weren't conceived of in national terms.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    And the OP sees an opportunity of stepping back from the current failing globalization found in the entity called the EU by returning to nation states united by common interest yet remaining independent and sovereign.
    Yes.

    The EU worked fine when the economy was good and peace was the order of the day. Add the stressors of the fiscal crisis, and then the migration crisis, and the EU begins to crumble. That tells me that nationalism and the nation-state is not ready to give way to the "greater good" of the global (or in this case regional) system.

    Interests are still aligned around the old nation-states.

    As a historical note: interestingly it has been the Germanic tribes that have first cast off local ties and oaths to create larger systems of organization. The unification of Germany (lead by Prussia), then the EU. And Germany was floating trial balloons about turning the EU into a true federal entity- a political and economic union that would end sovereignty at the nation-state level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Here is the Wiki on it. Some of it is useful.Basically the nation-state system replaced the previous age of empires with the primary political entity being nation-states (a merging of the two separate concepts). Nation-states are the centerpiece of the international system and any international institutions are only tools for the nation-states to work together.
    `
    Thank you. In one of my classes, we spent a week (3 1/2 hours) discussing Niccolò Machiavell's; "The Prince." It was then that I discovered I have no interest in ruling other people.
    `

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