Professor raised under communism explains academics’ love of socialism – and why they

[William]

OK, I'm not going to argue with nationalistic, right wing Americans that theirs is not the best of all possible societies.

Dunno about your society, but I think Americans are great, and I think it would be bad manners. So let's just agree that US society, just like Australian or Canadian society, owes its roots to Europe, and none of us would be where we are without that European heritage and knowledge base.

[Hal Jordan]

Lol - oh really?

What were my teachers thinking - telling us that le Siècle des Lumières, or Die Aufklärung, also known as the Enlightenment, occurred in Europe during 'the long 18th century' (1685 - 1815)? Obviously such a thing could only have happened after 1788 in the USA.

Obviously, none of those people responsible for western invention and development - from Galileo, to Newton, to Marie Curie, to Stephenson, to Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz could possibly have existed outside the United States. The Europeans were still living in caves and hunting with clubs made of branches and stones, when God miraculously created the American Republic.

I just want to say that the argument as to the past of scholarly thinking is irrelevant to what he said. Past innovations are not discounted by it. He was speaking of as it stands currently. So, to properly compare it, you would have to look at current innovations in scholarly thinking.

[William]

I just want to say that the argument as to the past of scholarly thinking is irrelevant to what he said. Past innovations are not discounted by it. He was speaking of as it stands currently. So, to properly compare it, you would have to look at current innovations in scholarly thinking.

Well, I guess we would have to define 'scholarly thinking' to understand exactly what he means, but I doubt most sensible people would accept that 'scholarly thinking' is impossible anywhere in Europe (which includes Britain - host to two of the most famous universities in the world,).

I don't want to offend any of my American friends here, but sorry, yours is a very rich and powerful society which is a credit to you, but you are not 'the greatest' at everything - no country is. I'm not going to argue over something as silly as that.

[Hal Jordan]

Well, I guess we would have to define 'scholarly thinking' to understand exactly what he means, but I doubt most sensible people would accept that 'scholarly thinking' is impossible anywhere in Europe (which includes Britain - host to two of the most famous universities in the world,).

I don't want to offend any of my American friends here, but sorry, yours is a very rich and powerful society which is a credit to you, but you are not 'the greatest' at everything - no country is. I'm not going to argue over something as silly as that.

I would hope that no sensible people accept that scholarly thinking is impossible in Europe. If we were to get into a full-fledged debate on what kind of atmosphere helps scholarly thinking grow the best, it would be best to have a clear agreement on what scholarly thinking is.

Of course we're not the best at everything. I'm pretty sure we're not the best at rugby and stuff like that.

[HoneyBadger]

The other thing to think about is the fact that the professor is a migrant from an ex-communist nation which even before communism, was a superstitious tribal country who's only claim to fame was the legend of a cruel monster called Vlad the Impaler.

Every migrant who left his home country cos of dissatisfaction, says it was hell on earth (and nothing to do with him), and his new country is the land of milk and honey. Nothing new there.

What are you, 12?

Seriously, those of us of a certain age have a very clear memory of communism. For us, it's not some abstract concept that the "right wing" has blown out of proportion. It has quite literally resulted in tens of millions of deaths. It's not a good system that's been perverted by bad people, it's one of the most destructive forces this planet has ever seen.

[Cletus]

He is a kid who has never been anywhere or done anything. Everything he thinks he knows, everything he has, comes from Mommy and Daddy or some elementary school teacher. He has never had to stand for anything or risk anything.

He is a child with a child's view of the world.

[William]

I would hope that no sensible people accept that scholarly thinking is impossible in Europe. If we were to get into a full-fledged debate on what kind of atmosphere helps scholarly thinking grow the best, it would be best to have a clear agreement on what scholarly thinking is.

Of course we're not the best at everything. I'm pretty sure we're not the best at rugby and stuff like that.

Thanks, the only reason I posted in this thread was the quote by the OP that scholarly thinking was impossible anywhere in Europe. It seemed to me the sort of thing a not very bright first former might say - and even then he would be howled down by his classmates.

As for being the best at everything - nobody is - it's just not possible. But I think Americans are good enough at enough things so they don't have to brag like that. Like my dad says "Self-praise is no recommendation".

And lol, dunno about rugby, but I don't think The President's Eleven is a feared team where the leather hits the willow.

[Hal Jordan]

Thanks, the only reason I posted in this thread was the quote by the OP that scholarly thinking was impossible anywhere in Europe. It seemed to me the sort of thing a not very bright first former might say - and even then he would be howled down by his classmates.

As for being the best at everything - nobody is - it's just not possible. But I think Americans are good enough at enough things so they don't have to brag like that. Like my dad says "Self-praise is no recommendation".

And lol, dunno about rugby, but I don't think The President's Eleven is a feared team where the leather hits the willow.

This computer is having trouble loading the full article, but from what was posted here, what was said was that scholarly thinking grows better in America than Europe. That doesn't mean that it is impossible there or even that it doesn't grow there.

I don't typically participate in the bragging. I tend to be more of the mindset that it's pointless to brag about it. If you're the best, show you're the best. America is good at a number of things, and I think we can show it when it comes down to it. Best at everything? I agree that it's impossible.

[William]

This computer is having trouble loading the full article, but from what was posted here, what was said was that scholarly thinking grows better in America than Europe. That doesn't mean that it is impossible there or even that it doesn't grow there.

I don't typically participate in the bragging. I tend to be more of the mindset that it's pointless to brag about it. If you're the best, show you're the best. America is good at a number of things, and I think we can show it when it comes down to it. Best at everything? I agree that it's impossible.

Sorry Hal - this is what he said (verbatim - it's in the OP) “There’s a certain atmosphere in which scholarly thinking can grow in the United States that it cannot grow in any European country.” That is a clear statement which is not open to interpretation.

Even your interpretation that 'scholarly thinking grows better in America than Europe' neither makes sense, nor would be possible to prove. I know you are not someone who would participate in bragging, but even you have been influenced to believe that sort of propaganda. What sort of evidence do you have that the USA is a more intellectual society than any European country? Is it from the knowledge the average American in the street has of the rest of the world? Is it how well American school kids do compared to the rest of the world? How well the average American uses the English language?

I'm not dissing Americans, and I know this will make me pretty unpopular here, but if someone makes a claim of superiority - they should have pretty convincing proof of that superiority.

[Mac-7]

Sorry Hal - this is what he said (verbatim - it's in the OP) “There’s a certain atmosphere in which scholarly thinking can grow in the United States that it cannot grow in any European country.” That is a clear statement which is not open to interpretation.

Even your interpretation that 'scholarly thinking grows better in America than Europe' neither makes sense, nor would be possible to prove. I know you are not someone who would participate in bragging, but even you have been influenced to believe that sort of propaganda. What sort of evidence do you have that the USA is a more intellectual society than any European country? Is it from the knowledge the average American in the street has of the rest of the world? Is it how well American school kids do compared to the rest of the world? How well the average American uses the English language?

I'm not dissing Americans, and I know this will make me pretty unpopular here, but if someone makes a claim of superiority - they should have pretty convincing proof of that superiority.

Scholarly thinking within the narrow bounds allowed within the dominant progressive/socialist/humanist culture in europe is what I think he was referring to.

And any advantage American academia once had is fading fast.

independent thinkers are being driven from campus all over America at an alarming rate.